Certainty of Being
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Originally posted by Thusness:
I see it otherwise. :-)Be it "dreamy" or "pureness" both are appearances, nothing ultimate. The truth of 'empty nature' of appearances however is ultimate. In Buddhism, there is no ultimate reality, only ultimate truth.
I see what you mean... yes, whatever states - even 'dreamy' and 'pureness' are fully luminous and empty. Ultimately, all is empty and insubstantial, as Heart Sutra say - no purity and no defilements. -
凡所有相, 皆是虚妄. As long as there is appearance, it's false; a type of deception ; untruth.
"实报庄严土 Pureland 3rd Abode is also false, a type of deception. only 常寂光 4th abode is the final non deception. " said MCK (Pureland master)
we can however borrow falseness to cultivate ultimate truth. 借妄修真 借�修真.
/\
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Non dual is seeing that everything is mind, a central teaching in Lankavatara Sutra (see Transcript of the Lankavatara Sutra sharing by Thusness). By 'mind', I don't mean imagination or fabrication - I mean you, as Buddha-nature, as the undeniable presence of cognizance.
Seeing scenery, there is no mind seeing scenery... scenery is the seeing/mind itself, pure luminous cognizance.
Hearing music, there is no mind hearing the music... mind is music itself, pure luminous cognizance.
But if we investigate mind... no such entity can be found, only experiencing, intimate, non-dual, flowing.
There is no ultimate mind... only moments of arising that is mind, only moments of mind, process of mind, mind-moments, pure, intimate, non-dual, vivid, yet insubstantial and ungraspable.
This is the difference between substantial and non-substantial non-dualism: whether non-dual moments of mind are reified into an ultimate essence or seen to be simply the process of arisings.
This is the One Mind without reifying the 'One'... the one mind that is the diversity itself.
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Seeing, hearing, experiencing, thinking...
That is all that is happening. Look for a 'self' to which these are happening, a separate self cannot be found to exist.
No one is causing experiences to happen... no God, no Self, no controller, no perceiver... there is just what is seen, what is heard... 'in seeing just the seen, in hearing just the heard'. They do not happen to, or belong to, a self. They are the 'phenomena of the interdependent universe' in which there are no perceivers or controllers.
So the question ought not to be 'who is thinking' or 'who is seeing' or 'who is controlling the thoughts'...
The question ought to be, 'how do these phenomena arise'? And the answer to that is they arise interdependent with all various supporting conditions... Everything interacting with each other to support this moment of manifestation, including our deep latent mental tendencies/propensities/conditionings.
So when there are bad feelings, bad thoughts, and so on... they too are manifested due to conditions. Trying to suppress them is to fall into self-view: the view that there is a controller or doer of things that could do/undo arisings... Don't think you can 'will' your attachments away merely by will power or force - things don't work that way.
This self-view is harmful as it leads to unnatural suppression (in which the symptoms may be temporarily suppressed but return back with greater force later) of experiences.
But does this mean we cannot do a single thing to our thoughts and attachments? No... it just means we need to change the conditions and tendencies in which such experiences/sufferings/attachments occur.
By how? By practicing non-clinging, contemplating the non-self, impermanence, emptiness of things, and so on... which leads to insight and release.
On the relative level, practices like metta (loving kindness) helps resolve certain psychological issues like anger.
Chanting and calm-abiding meditations help develope calmness of mind.
All these are changing the tendencies and conditions of mind in which experiences manifest...
Therefore, practice is important. The nature of reality never changes and is merely discovered... but the way in which our experience manifest can be changed - by transformation, by realization, and so on. But not by suppression, or forcefully controlling our experience, which never works, simply because it is not in accord with the way reality works (via interdependent origination).
For example, we often think that thinking is the problem and we think we need to stop them from arising... but actually there is no problem with thinking at all - thinking is a natural functioning of all human beings and even in animals. They are a required function.
The problem is because of our clinging to our thoughts, our self-contraction, which causes endless suffering for ourselves. So there is a more fundamental underlying condition/cause which serves as a basis for those thoughts, or rather, the clinging to thoughts. They are our ignorance, our tendency to grasp, and this is the condition that needs to be removed. Not the gross manifestation of thoughts per say...
That said, calming the mind (impt: via letting go - not forceful suppression) is still an important part of the practice and must go hand in hand with insight practice - but my point is that suppressing thoughts doesn't cut the root of the problem. It merely suppresses certain 'symptoms' of a more fundamental underlying cause.
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We often think that thought is obscuring our 'experience of Nowness' or 'experience of Presence'...
As if the present moment is what is actually present in the absence of thought.
But have we actually look at thought itself... the actuality of thought.
Isn't thought itself an arising happening now? If we look nakedly at the manifestation of thought... we discover it to be of the similar vivid intense presence as that which is experienced in the absence of conceptual thoughts.
Thought too is Presence, is Nowness, is Awareness, whatever you want to call it (they aren't an inherent substance but merely words pointing to the vivid and insubstantial arisings of the moment)... it is vivid, bright, clear, though insubstantial (like anything else). It is non-dual: there is no separation of a thinker and thought... there is just the vivid appearance of thought.
Maintaining awareness, 'living in the now', presence, and so on, therefore does not require getting rid of thought or 'remaining in the gap of no-thought' like what many teachers teach.
Maintaining presence can be done 'within' thought itself... by dropping all striving (to maintain any particular state of presence), resistance and clinging, and simply and mindfully letting all experiences including thoughts to arise and subside in its own luminous and empty nature.
Remember as I said before: thoughts aren't the problem, clinging is.
By being awake 'within' thoughts, we stop ourselves from getting lost in our thought stories... we are present to the entire field of experience rather than narrowing our focus on our mental chatter. Whatever arises is allowed to unfold and then subside on its own without clinging or rejecting.
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If you say there is self... zen master's stick hit you 30 times.
If you say there is no self... zen master's stick hit you 30 times.
If you say all is one... zen master's stick hit you 30 times.
In the process of contemplation, the 'dualistic' and 'inherent' framework begins to lose hold.
After seeing through and letting go "self" via the teaching of "no self"... so too is "one", "no self", "emptiness" to be let go of in the process.
"Self", "No Self", "One", "Emptiness" cannot be established - just as no "self" can be found, no "no self" can be found either. View and teachings are important but are also rafts to be let go in the end.
And yet still nothing is lost. Sky is blue, grass is green, clear, obvious, undeniable, certain, actual. Drop my spoon, tinggg!
The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!
"Bhikkkhus, this view, so clean and pure, if you covet, fondle, treasure and take pride in it do you know this Teaching comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up and not for the purpose of holding? No, venerable sir. Bhikkhus, this view of yours so clean and pure, do not covet, fondle, treasure and take pride in it. Do you know this Teaching comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up and not for the purpose of holding? Yes, venerable sir."
- Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
We often think that thought is obscuring our 'experience of Nowness' or 'experience of Presence'...
As if the present moment is what is actually present in the absence of thought.
But have we actually look at thought itself... the actuality of thought.
Isn't thought itself an arising happening now? If we look nakedly at the manifestation of thought... we discover it to be of the similar vivid intense presence as that which is experienced in the absence of conceptual thoughts.
Thought too is Presence, is Nowness, is Awareness, whatever you want to call it (they aren't an inherent substance but merely words pointing to the vivid and insubstantial arisings of the moment)... it is vivid, bright, clear, though insubstantial (like anything else). It is non-dual: there is no separation of a thinker and thought... there is just the vivid appearance of thought.
Maintaining awareness, 'living in the now', presence, and so on, therefore does not require getting rid of thought or 'remaining in the gap of no-thought' like what many teachers teach.
Maintaining presence can be done 'within' thought itself... by dropping all striving (to maintain any particular state of presence), resistance and clinging, and simply and mindfully letting all experiences including thoughts to arise and subside in its own luminous and empty nature.
Remember as I said before: thoughts aren't the problem, clinging is.
By being awake 'within' thoughts, we stop ourselves from getting lost in our thought stories... we are present to the entire field of experience rather than narrowing our focus on our mental chatter. Whatever arises is allowed to unfold and then subside on its own without clinging or rejecting.
Found something relevant:
View and Meditation of the Great Perfection
by the first Jamgon Kontrul RinpocheHomage to the Guru, the teacher.
The View and Meditation of Dzogchen can be explained in many, many ways, but simply sustaining the essence of present awareness includes them all.
Your mind won't be found elsewhere.
It is the very nature of this moment-to-moment thinking.
Regard nakedly the essence of this thinking and you find present awareness, right where you are.Why chase after thoughts, which are superficial ripples of present awareness?
Rather look directly into the naked, empty nature of thoughts; then there is no duality, no observer, and nothing observed.
Simply rest in this transparent, nondual present awareness.
Make yourself at home in the natural state of pure presence, just being, not doing anything in particular.Present awareness is empty, open, and luminous; not a concrete substance, yet not nothing.
Empty, yet it is perfectly cognizant, lucid, aware.
As if magically, not by causing it to be aware, but innately aware, awareness continuously functions.
These two sides of present awareness or Rigpa-its emptiness and its cognizance (lucidity)-are inseparable.
Emptiness and luminosity (knowing) are inseparable.
They are formless, as if nothing whatsoever, ungraspable, unborn, undying; yet spacious, vivid, buoyant.
Nothing whatsoever, yet Emaho!, everything is magically experienced.
Simply recognize this.
Look into the magical mirror of mind and appreciate this infinite magical display.With constant, vigilant mindfulness, sustain this recognition of empty, open, brilliant awareness.
Cultivate nothing else.
There is nothing else to do, or to undo.
Let it remain naturally.
Don't spoil it by manipulating, by controlling, by tampering with it, and worrying about whether you are right or wrong, or having a good meditation or a bad meditation.
Leave it as it is, and rest your weary heart and mind.The ultimate luminosity of Dharmakaya, absolute truth, is nothing other than the very nature of this uncontrived, ordinary mind.
Don't look elsewhere for the Buddha.
It is nothing other than the nature of this present awareness.
This is the Buddha within.There are innumerable Dharma teachings.
There are many antidotes to many different kinds of spiritual diseases.
There are many words in the Mahamudra and Dzogchen nondual teachings.
But the root, the heart of all practices is included here, in simply sustaining the luminous nature of this present awareness.
If you search elsewhere for something better, a Buddha superior to this present awareness, you are deluding yourself.
You are chained, entangled in the barbed wire of hope and fear.
So give it up! Simply sustain present wakefulness, moment after moment.
Devotion, compassion, and perfecting virtue and wisdom are the most important supportive methods for completely fulfilling this naked, nondual teaching about present awareness, the innate Dharmakaya.
So always devote yourself to spiritual practice for the benefit of others and apply yourself in body, speech, and mind to what is wholesome and virtuous.Sarva mangalam.
May all beings be happy!
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Sky is blue, grass is green, clear, obvious, undeniable, certain, actual. Drop my spoon, tinggg!
The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!
For this to be thorough, effortless and natural, arise the 'willingness' to let go of Awareness first.
and
" Sky is blue, grass is green, clear, obvious, undeniable, certain, actual. Drop my spoon, tinggg!
The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!"
only expresses the realization and degree of naturalness of non-dual luminosity, it is not sufficient for a practitioner to let go of all views.
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Originally posted by Thusness:
For this to be thorough, effortless and natural, arise the 'willingness' to let go of Awareness first.
and
" Sky is blue, grass is green, clear, obvious, undeniable, certain, actual. Drop my spoon, tinggg!
The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop!"
only expresses the realization and degree of naturalness of non-dual luminosity, it is not sufficient for a practitioner to let go of all views.
I see.. yes, non-dual luminosity though vivid and clear is also empty... arise and vanish momentarily according to conditions without traces. This too must be seen. The slightest clinging and the slightest 'trace' left of anything at all and we miss the "effortless/spontaneous and conditionally arising and passing" nature of self-luminous manifestation...
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I see.. yes, non-dual luminosity though vivid and clear is also empty... arise and vanish momentarily according to conditions without traces. This too must be seen. The slightest clinging and the slightest 'trace' left of anything at all and we miss the "effortless/spontaneous and conditionally arising and passing" nature of self-luminous manifestation...
Yes and "right view" becomes even more important after clear non-dual experience.Although all are ultimately raft and pointers, unless the quintessence of "Emptiness" of phenomena including "Awareness/Global-Awareness" is thoroughly penetrated, it is still too early to talk about dropping all views.
We may not know how much 'attachment' we have invested in non-dual presence until we go through the painstaking process of twofold Emptiness.
As Greg Goode said:
In my own interactions with people, when these issues started to come up, I began to suggest looking into the emptiness teachings, which don’t mention global awareness. And you know what? Instant resonance!! The way these folks see it, the emptiness teachings don’t reduce the world, they liberate it.
My 2 cents. :)
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Originally posted by Thusness:
Yes and "right view" becomes even more important after clear non-dual experience.Although all are ultimately raft and pointers, unless the quintessence of "Emptiness" of phenomena including "Awareness/Global-Awareness" is thoroughly penetrated, it is still too early to talk about dropping all views.
We may not know how much 'attachment' we have invested in non-dual presence until we go through the painstaking process of twofold Emptiness.
As Greg Goode said:
My 2 cents. :)
I see... thanks for pointing out :)
Indeed... There is no Awareness... There is no perceiver perceiving perception...
The perceiving is always just conditionally-arising-and-passing self-luminous perceptions, sights, sounds... no agent of them can be found. Therefore to cling to a state of 'awareness' is to fail to see the nature of manifestation/awareness.
Having an experience or insight of non-dual can still result in clinging to 'Awareness' if the 'no agent' aspect is not seen. There could be the notion that 'There is an ultimate Awareness that is one with all it perceives'... the 'view' of anatta and emptiness should therefore step in to dissolve such assumption/deeply held 'view of inherency'. Otherwise the tendency of 'sinking back to a Source' will still keep arising. The tendency to abstract and segregate brilliant luminosity/knowing from the arising and ceasing manifestation (even though they are inseparable) is still strong not just in the 'I AM' but also in the nondual phase.
So in conclusion... We can't do away with the raft.... until the raft has done it's job. Don't throw it away too early otherwise it fails to serve its intended purpose.
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When we talk about the nature of reality, many of us think of a Source. What source? An ultimate source, an ultimate awareness that displays or manifests everything.
In our mind, we picture awareness like an eternal sun shining on the passing clouds in the sky... the eternal sun is primordially untainted, pure, unaffected by the passing/transient stuff, yet it is also the source of all the manifestations/transient stuff. We picture a Source 'illuminating' and 'manifesting' things... We think of Awareness as an agent 'perceiving' and 'illuminating' objects... this can certainly appear to be the case even after transcendental experiences of I AM and Non-Dual, with the 'view of inherency' still strong.
However the insight of Anatta removes the notion of an agent or source... why is this so? Anatta means this... in hearing, there is no hearer... there is simply the self-accomplishing process of hearing which is really the experience of sound, music, changing moment to moment, arising according to conditions.
In seeing, there is no seer... it is simply a self-accomplishing process of seeing which is is simply the experience of sight, the shapes and colours, changing moment to moment, arising according to conditions.
In thinking, there is no thinker or controller of thought... there is simply the self-accomplishing process of thinking which is thought, changing moment to moment, arising according to latent tendencies and other supporting conditions.
So if there is no agent, no source, no ultimate Awareness - only awareness/hearing/thinking as a process of manifestation... this is not a denial of awareness, hearing, seeing, perceiving, but a denial of awareness/perceiving/etc as an 'agent' of experience - it is simply a process of experiencing without experiencer.
If this is the case, is there a primordially pure Awareness? The answer is this... Awareness is simply the self-luminous appearance, and this self-luminous appearance is ultimately empty, unborn, and primordially pure.
This arising sound... this arising sight... scent... thought.... This is it. It is not about the transient clouds obscuring or tainting the primordially pure sun and then trying to remove all the clouds to get back to that pure sun... rather, it is that, the passing cloud seen as it is, is primordially pure, empty, self-luminous and spontaneously perfected. And yet... undeniably, ignorance arise and we experience apparent duality and inherency where none can be found... this false view of reality is the cause of all our grasping and sufferings and problems.
Yet the cause of liberation is not found by shunning the transience or sinking back into a Source... it is not about a 'freedom from appearance' or even a 'freedom despite appearance'... appearance is primordially pure! This appearance (seen rightly) alone is self-liberating! It is about a shift in view/paradigm... a shift from duality and inherency to a non-dual, non-inherent viewless view of transience.
Liberation is thus not about abiding in an unborn ultimate essence... but seeing all appearances as luminous, empty, unborn, primordially pure and spontaneously perfected.
Dzogchen master Longchenpa:
...All phenomena are primordially pure and enlightened, so it is unborn and unceasing, inconceivable and inexpressible.
In the ultimate sphere purity and impurity are naturally pure and phenomena are the great equal perfection, free from conception.
Since there is no bondage and liberation, there is no going, coming or dwelling.
Appearance and emptiness are conventions, apprehended and apprehender are like maya (a magical apparition).
The happiness and suffering of samsara and nirvana are like good and bad dreams.
From the very moment of appearing, its nature is free from elaboration.
From it (the state of freedom from elaboration), the very interdependent causation of the great arising and cessation appears like a dream, maya, an optical illusion, a city of the gandharvas an echo, and a reflection, having no reality. All the events such as arising, etc., Are in their true nature unborn.
So they will never cease nor undergo any changes in the three periods of time.
They did not come from anywhere and they did not go anywhere.
They will not stay anywhere: they are like a dream and maya.
A foolish person is attached to phenomena as true, and apprehends them as gross material phenomena,
"i" and "self," whereas they are like a maya-girl who disappears when touched.
They are not true because they are deceiving and act only in appearance.
The spheres of the six realms of beings and the pure lands of the buddhas, also are not aggregations of atoms, but merely the self-appearances of beings’ minds.
For example, in a dream buddhas and sentient beings appear as real, endowed with inconceivable properties.
However, when one awakens, they were just a momentary object of the mind.
In the same way should be understood all the phenomena of samsara and nirvana.
There is no separate emptiness apart from apparent phenomena.
It is like fire and heat, the qualities of fire.
The notion of their distinctness is a division made by mind.
Water and the moon’s reflection in water are indivisibly one in the pool.
Likewise, appearances and emptiness are one in the great dharmata.
These appearances are unborn from the beginning, and they are the dharmakaya.
They are like reflections, naturally unstained and pure.
The mind’s fabricating their existence or nonexistence is an illusion,
So do not conceptualize whatever appearances arise...
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There is no cosmic awareness pervading all beings and universe...
Such a notion presumes the existence of an inherent awareness which pervades the universe and all beings.
At this level, the notion of a personal self is broken down... reality is seen as something impersonal and universal (no sense of a small 'me' or 'mine' therein), but then reified into a Big Self that pervades and subsumes all things and beings.
However, the realization of anatta (which goes beyond impersonality as the view of an agent or a Big Self is also deconstructed) breaks down the notion of an inherent universal awareness that is the source of the universe/all beings... why?
Awareness/Universe is realized to be just This arising sound... this passing scent, this passing sight, this passing thought... each experience is distinct and complete as it is. Each mindstream is also distinct... we don't 'share' an ultimate awareness - awareness is just the diversity of experiences.
The Universe is not an inherently objective thing... Awareness is also not an inherently existing/ultimate Subject... both words 'universe' and 'awareness' are simply labels that point to This experience... both are labels that point to characteristics of each experience... the word 'universe' points to the non-personal nature of each experience, while the word 'awareness' implies the self-luminous, brilliant essence of each arising... but they are convenient labels not refering to an inherent essence.
Luminously and vividly present... the typing sound of the keyboard... the universe/awareness is just This, and yet the moment it appears it vanishes without a trace... and then in deep sleep, everything literally vanishes... all manifestation of consciousness so familiar and dear to us completely vanishes. No knowing of any sorts survive deep sleep. And then each morning, consciousness/universe arises again due to conditions... and the cycle begins... a conditioned cycle with nothing (no self/objects) inherent therein.
No solid 'The Awareness' or 'The Universe' can be found after all... neither can non-existence apply (this will be a nihilistic denial of 'our' experience): actuality is just this stream of univer-sing that depends on supporting conditions and is diverse and distinct in every manifestation.
So as I quote again... from the Buddha...
Dwelling at Savatthi... Then Ven. Kaccayana Gotta approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.
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Are mind(s) unique or cosmic/universal?
Was discussing with a friend on facebook... he is of the opinion (based on his insight of no-self) that there are no individual mindstreams.
I told him (slightly edited):
Mindstreams do not imply 'entities'... There is no entity in the mindstream... the word 'mind STREAM' implies it's a stream rolling on with nothing substantially existing.
Of course, each stream doesn't directly affect others (but it does affect others interdependently: they just aren't the same stream).
In other words, the karmic deeds of this mind stream wouldn't ripen in another mindstream...
i.e. if I killed someone, you won't have to suffer for 'my' karma (even though there is no doer, just a process of volition, action and ripening, etc) It is not the case that 'we are one and the same'.
Also, all phenomena are luminous, but luminosity is not a shared essence of all mindstreams (that would be the substantialist non-dual view of 'everything as manifestation of an ultimate Awareness' instead of seeing that Awareness is simply this arising and subsiding sight, sound, thought)... luminosity is the diversity of experience which we do not share (as obviously we all have our unique experiences in life which we do not share), and thus mindstreams remain unique even though non-dual (means in seeing just the seen, in hearing just the heard, no agent/hearer/experiencer can be found).There is no one universal or cosmic mind which we share. Instead, there are unique streams of minds (mental experiences), but with no center or self to which the streaming occurs to. There are unique mindstreams/unique experiences which we never share, but no independent self/selves or an independent experiencer of experience. Because there is no experiencer, all there is is experience… but experiences are diverse and unique and cannot be equated with one another. The experience of a dog and the experience of a human and the experience of some other realms are vastly different due to different karmic conditionings. ‘We’ have unique mindstreams and experiences even though there is no ‘self’.
As Loppon Namdrol pointed out, the notion of a cosmic mind is a non-Buddhist view. Such a view is sustained only when there is lack of insight into Anatta and Emptiness.
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Everything arises dependent on supporting conditions.
Auditory, visual, tactile, etc... consciousness-es arise moment to moment, but each moment of manifestation is a fresh, unique, and complete expression dependent on many factors and conditions.What we think of as 'I did this' is actually:
With certain event as condition, a particular thought arises, and with that particular thought process as condition, an intention arises, and with the intention as condition, physical action arises, and with the physical action as condition, (blah blah blah...)What we think of as 'I experienced this' is actually:
With certain event as condition (dark clouds, lightning strikes, air, ear, etc), a particular auditory consciousness arises (without a separate observer - in hearing just sound)....
Everything is the action of an interdependent universe. There is no agent behind things... but an inter-action, inter-dependence in each moment of arising. An important note is that 'no agent' does not mean 'no intention' - 'no agent' does not mean you are apart from the process and the process simply happens by itself without volition - rather, you are still as engaged, intimate, and non-dual with the process (because there is no 'you' apart from the process!) which includes intentions and actions. The notion of agency and separation is rejected, nothing else.
We don't step into the same river twice... because in each moment a fresh new experience arises dependent on various conditions.
Nothing is inherent... nothing exists on its own, but arises dependent on other factors. Consciousness is non-dual and non-inherent - i.e. consciousness is not a separate observer of objects but is simply the experience of sight, taste, scenery, etc, complete as it is without an observer-observed dichotomy... but it is also non-inherent: each non-dual arising arises dependent on various supporting conditions. There is nothing inherent (either subjectively or objectively) at all in experience... and therefore, being dependently originated, there is also nothing truly unchanging or permanent - change dependent on conditions, alone is.Is Consciousness the ultimate source or cause of all experience? Not really... for Consciousness is simply experience as it is - it is not the source of experience. It's self-luminosity is simply the characteristic of each unique experience... Consciousness is the 'effect' of interdependence, not the 'cause'. i.e. Consciousness IS the sound of 'BANG'... it is not that there is a 'consciousness' causing the experience of hearing sound 'BANG'... and, this experience could not have happened without various supporting conditions. With supporting conditions, experience naturally arises, and where experience/arising is, consciousness is (experience IS by nature conscious).
And yet each moment of consciousness is a whole, complete, and unconditioned expression of interdependence. This unconditioned-complete-manifestation-of-consciousness is not 'created' by something else (it is a whole new complete reality), yet is supported by the other factors for its arising.
So, in the seeing, there is JUST the seen... not a segregated world of subjects and objects interacting with each other. The universe is just univer-sing as mountains and rivers.
In the hearing, there is JUST the heard.... not a segregated world of subjects and objects interacting with each other. The universe is arising as this sound, Dinggggg...
And yet, the heard cannot arise except with the condition of ears, object of hearing, etc... an interdependence that is so seamless and complex as to be incomprehensible by thought.
The seen cannot arise except with the condition of eyes, object of sight, etc... an interdependence that is so seamless and complex as to be incomprehensible by thought.
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The experience of sound does not arise from somewhere (whether 'outside', 'inside', 'from Awareness', etc)...
Why? Sound does not have independent and inherent existence. It cannot be located somewhere.
Say, the sound of lightning strike....
It IS only when all supporting causal factors are present. (weather, air, lightning, ears, etc)
It isn't when the causal factors have departed.
Therefore, the arising of sound is dependent on various causal factors and therefore sound does not have an origin or location.
The experience of music playing does not exist in or come from your ear, your head, or the speakers. It is simply an interdependently originated experience.
It's nature is empty, unlocatable, ungraspable, dependently originated.
Same goes for thought, sight, etc....
What we see is so concretely 'out there' is really simply an experience of interdependent origination, and each species may perceive differently - dogs don't perceive colours, humans perceive colours, other realms can perceive something totally different, or if you perceive at a quantum level there is mostly just voidness and yet due to our karmic conditions, we perceive shapes and forms. Neither 'voidness' nor 'shapes and forms' are inherent! There is merely an infinite potentiality due to the emptiness of things.
Nothing we can see, hear, touch, think, has an actual location, and they do not exist or arise from some 'where'.
In fact 'existence' does not apply... they merely appear - and their appearance is momentary like lightning strikes. Their appearance is like an illusion but not an illusion, vivid, self-luminous and yet ungraspable.
By clearly seeing D.O., we see that there is no 'coming from', no 'going to', no inherent existence or location, entities, ultimate source, permanence, independence, etc... Freeing ourselves from such notions, experience still arise as clearly as ever, and yet we are freed from notions that bind us, that causes us to grasp, that causes us to 'leave traces' of objects and of a Source. We see that there is no Ultimate Origin to experience, only Interdependent Origination to experience, and so we don't cling to a Source, an Awareness, etc (Awareness is simply an interdependently originated process of experiencing). Yet the self-luminosity of experience remains as clear as ever.
What IS is only this stream of dream-like phenomena rolling on according to conditions... that has no arising and ceasing, no coming and going, no origin, no abidance, and yet is the very brilliance of non-dual presence itself. I've seen videos of certain teachers who explain that there is a self-nature (Presence) that has no coming and going unlike appearances... but the fact is, appearance IS Presence, and appearance is by nature empty, unconditioned, without coming and going.
"All composed things are like a dream,
a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightning.
That is how to meditate on them,
that is how to observe them."
~ Diamond Sutra
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Non dual is seeing that everything is mind, a central teaching in Lankavatara Sutra (see Transcript of the Lankavatara Sutra sharing by Thusness). By 'mind', I don't mean imagination or fabrication - I mean you, as Buddha-nature, as the undeniable presence of cognizance.
Seeing scenery, there is no mind seeing scenery... scenery is the seeing/mind itself, pure luminous cognizance.
Hearing music, there is no mind hearing the music... mind is music itself, pure luminous cognizance.
But if we investigate mind... no such entity can be found, only experiencing, intimate, non-dual, flowing.
There is no ultimate mind... only moments of arising that is mind, only moments of mind, process of mind, mind-moments, pure, intimate, non-dual, vivid, yet insubstantial and ungraspable.
This is the difference between substantial and non-substantial non-dualism: whether non-dual moments of mind are reified into an ultimate essence or seen to be simply the process of arisings.
This is the One Mind without reifying the 'One'... the one mind that is the diversity itself.
The Prajñápáramitá Sutra says:
Regarding mind:
Mind does not exist
its expression is luminosity. -
Hi AEN,
Though it sounded like you are repeating the past 3 posts, I can sense that u r getting it. :)
The initial break-through although may appear thorough to you but the clear experience of no-mind should not last more than few months. It will lose its grandeur and the 'split' will surface intermittently. So go through few cycles of refining your experience of no-mind and continue to adopt the 'right view' of understanding the experience. Have no doubt that Phenomena in their primordial purity is Dharmakaya.
Always check whether there is any lingering trace of a background. If there is, there will always be division. Do not fear challenging your imaginary split. In time to come, u will realize u can't re-experience the 'division' even if you want to.
Lastly when the subtest trace of a background is gone, still don't think of dropping 'right view'; it is only the beginning; u will begin to understand DO more deeply.
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Originally posted by Thusness:
Hi AEN, Though it sounded like you are repeating the past 3 posts, I can sense that u r getting it.
The initial break-through although may appear thorough to you but the clear experience of no-mind should not last more than few months. It will lose its grandeur and the ‘split’ will surface intermittently. So go through few cycles of refining your experience of no-mind and continue to adopt the ‘right view’ of understanding the experience. Have no doubt that Phenomena in their primordial purity is Dharmakaya.Always check whether there is any lingering trace of a background. If there is, there will always be division. Do not fear challenging your imaginary split. In time to come, u will realize u can't re-experience the ‘division’ even if you want to.Lastly when the subtest trace of a background is gone, still don't think of dropping 'right view'; it is only the beginning; u will begin to understand DO more deeply.I see... thanks for the pointers :)
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Nothing in the world can be established. Something I wrote in another forum:
Regarding non-establishment: There is nothing that can be established in actual experience.... like what we call 'universe' is really 'universing'... what we call 'tree' is really 'treeing'... what we call 'wind' is really just the experience 'blowing'... a flow that cannot be pinned down, located, grasped or established in any way. As you said, everything is letting go every moment... there is just thoughts after thoughts, impressions, sensations, sounds, breathe, etc. We can't establish 'something' that is ever-evolving, 'streaming', dependently originated and non-substantial as being this or that, existing or non-existing, etc.
Our experience must not only transform to non dual, it must transform (not really transform as this is already the case, but rather a 'shift' of perception, an insight) to a non-substantial stream of experience.
There is nothing that can be established in actual experience.... like what we call 'universe' is really 'universing'... what we call 'tree' is really 'treeing'... what we call 'wind' is really just the experience 'blowing'... a flow that cannot be pinned down or grasped or established in any way, its manifestation being dependent on various supporting conditions.
You said well about there being no movement and no space, only impressions... in actuality, only ever this arising without movement. What dependently originates is empty of inherent existence and hence have no movement, no origin, no location (and no space), no 'coming from', 'going to', etc. When supporting conditions are present, 'it' (whatever 'it' is) appears and when the conditions cease, 'it' ceases. Apparition-like appearance that appears out of no where and goes no where (but is sustained by conditions), has no movement and is unborn.
The insight of non-dual, as well as anatta, no-agent, and dependent origination leads to a transformation of view and perception of reality... no longer are we seeing an 'Awareness' perceiving 'things' and thus fabricate a world of a subjective agent and an objective universe... we see that all there is is a constant stream-ing of experiences that is empty and dependent on supporting factors. Life, the universe, is like the constant streaming/playing of music without a listener, a constant streaming of water down the river without a seer, there is nothing fixed, graspable, unchanging or inherent.At this point, I am reminded of something Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh wrote very well:
Sunshine and Green Leaves
"When we say I know the wind is blowing, we don't think that there is something blowing something else. "Wind' goes with 'blowing'. If there is no blowing, there is no wind. It is the same with knowing. Mind is the knower; the knower is mind. We are talking about knowing in relation to the wind. 'To know' is to know something. Knowing is inseparable from the wind. Wind and knowing are one. We can say, 'Wind,' and that is enough. The presence of wind indicates the presence of knowing, and the presence of the action of blowing'."
"..The most universal verb is the verb 'to be'': I am, you are, the mountain is, a river is. The verb 'to be' does not express the dynamic living state of the universe. To express that we must say 'become.' These two verbs can also be used as nouns: 'being", "becoming". But being what? Becoming what? 'Becoming' means 'evolving ceaselessly', and is as universal as the verb "to be." It is not possible to express the "being" of a phenomenon and its "becoming" as if the two were independent. In the case of wind, blowing is the being and the becoming...."
"In any phenomena, whether psychological, physiological, or physical, there is dynamic movement, life. We can say that this movement, this life, is the universal manifestation, the most commonly recognized action of knowing. We must not regard 'knowing' as something from the outside which comes to breathe life into the universe. It is the life of the universe itself. The dance and the dancer are one."
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Its very informative reading the posts here, thanks guys!
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Nothing in the world can be established. Something I wrote in another forum:
Regarding non-establishment: There is nothing that can be established in actual experience.... like what we call 'universe' is really 'universing'... what we call 'tree' is really 'treeing'... what we call 'wind' is really just the experience 'blowing'... a flow that cannot be pinned down, located, grasped or established in any way. As you said, everything is letting go every moment... there is just thoughts after thoughts, impressions, sensations, sounds, breathe, etc. We can't establish 'something' that is ever-evolving, 'streaming', dependently originated and non-substantial as being this or that, existing or non-existing, etc.
Our experience must not only transform to non dual, it must transform (not really transform as this is already the case, but rather a 'shift' of perception, an insight) to a non-substantial stream of experience.
There is nothing that can be established in actual experience.... like what we call 'universe' is really 'universing'... what we call 'tree' is really 'treeing'... what we call 'wind' is really just the experience 'blowing'... a flow that cannot be pinned down or grasped or established in any way, its manifestation being dependent on various supporting conditions.
You said well about there being no movement and no space, only impressions... in actuality, only ever this arising without movement. What dependently originates is empty of inherent existence and hence have no movement, no origin, no location (and no space), no 'coming from', 'going to', etc. When supporting conditions are present, 'it' (whatever 'it' is) appears and when the conditions cease, 'it' ceases. Apparition-like appearance that appears out of no where and goes no where (but is sustained by conditions), has no movement and is unborn.
The insight of non-dual, as well as anatta, no-agent, and dependent origination leads to a transformation of view and perception of reality... no longer are we seeing an 'Awareness' perceiving 'things' and thus fabricate a world of a subjective agent and an objective universe... we see that all there is is a constant stream-ing of experiences that is empty and dependent on supporting factors.I am reminded of something Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh wrote:
Sunshine and Green Leaves
"When we say I know the wind is blowing, we don't think that there is something blowing something else. "Wind' goes with 'blowing'. If there is no blowing, there is no wind. It is the same with knowing. Mind is the knower; the knower is mind. We are talking about knowing in relation to the wind. 'To know' is to know something. Knowing is inseparable from the wind. Wind and knowing are one. We can say, 'Wind,' and that is enough. The presence of wind indicates the presence of knowing, and the presence of the action of blowing'."
"..The most universal verb is the verb 'to be'': I am, you are, the mountain is, a river is. The verb 'to be' does not express the dynamic living state of the universe. To express that we must say 'become.' These two verbs can also be used as nouns: 'being", "becoming". But being what? Becoming what? 'Becoming' means 'evolving ceaselessly', and is as universal as the verb "to be." It is not possible to express the "being" of a phenomenon and its "becoming" as if the two were independent. In the case of wind, blowing is the being and the becoming...."
"In any phenomena, whether psychological, physiological, or physical, there is dynamic movement, life. We can say that this movement, this life, is the universal manifestation, the most commonly recognized action of knowing. We must not regard 'knowing' as something from the outside which comes to breathe life into the universe. It is the life of the universe itself. The dance and the dancer are one."
Nice... Thanks for the sharing :)
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Nice music video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXmz605GAnc
p.s. Alan Watts really reminds me of Kevin Flynn from Tron. "You're messing with my Zen thing, man."
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You don't come to see mountains and rivers.
Mountains and rivers sees itself, feels itself, reveals itself.
Every moment, universe is revealing itself in its self-felt luminosity.
As this sight. As this thought. As this sound.
There is no one at the center to witness them or appreciate them.
And yet the dissolving of the self-construct is bliss.