Seriously i think CCA in schools is a waste of time
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
This CCA thing is meant to gain easier entry to overseas universities as our own local ivieis cannot accomodate them. it is all face value.
Is it?
Overseas Uni look at your CCAs?
Really?
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
Yes of the most of those that did , some ended in the gutter while others went on to become successful professionals. But CCA also does not guarantee u will end up as a successful professional as well.
But i do know lots who dropped out of school catching too much spiders, playing red alert also having successful businesses and earning lot more than professionals who took the conventional route.
And they end up paying high taxes to those took the super conventional route?
What you say you know, is all from you. No statistics to show. What if I say I do know lots who dropped out of school catching too much spiders, playing red alert, are now struggling to make ends meet?
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I would disagree that CCA is useless or a waste of time. My closest friends in sec sch were my ccamates and not my classmates and i would say cca has changed me quite abit into a much more responsible person. The amount of time and effort people in the same cca spent working together builds a very strong bond which can easily be stronger than that build in the classroom since there is less competitive and more teamwork in cca.
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
This CCA thing is meant to gain easier entry to overseas universities as our own local ivieis cannot accomodate them. it is all face value.
That's not true. My friends and I have applied before to US Ivy League universities as well as Stanford, Princeton, and UK universities like Imperial College and LSE and they do not ask for any CCA scores or records in their application forms.
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Quote: "The young now are so deprived of this expereince, they just stay at home studying for their homework, playing computer games, reading lots of garbage in google.
The CCA activities found in schools now are meant to develop skills?, I think it is laughable because many kids find it a chore and added burden. I think schools should try to develop the innate capabilities of a kid then force things down their throats. "
Isnt the above mentioned paragraphs a contradiction? It is precisely because our government has noticed the lack of outdoor opportunities for our children nowadays that CCAs were enforced. Perhaps given the rigidity of the structure in some schools it is percieved that such a plan is a burden and believe to have backfired. But as one who has seen the merits of having such a system in place, i cant help but feel that CCAs have been much maligned. The claim that CCAs are found to be a chore by students is a problem stemming from the students and not the program. It is precisely because children today choose to stay home and do their own things that there is a need to bring them outdoors, make friends, widen their social circles and hone the various skills in the variety of CCAs offered. Not just CCA but any experience in life requires a positive attitude to get the most out of it. To you catching spider and stuff is what u believe honed your lifeskills because it is what YOU enjoyed. Just because u do not see the need for CCA to be enforced under a systematic scheme and probably having been misled by a disgruntled minority, you are accusing the system as redundant and a burden. Having been a sportsperson throughout my entire schooling life, CCA has given me much opportunities and exposure which i felt would not be replaceable had i pursued my sporting interests as a leisurely pastime. As a sportsman you learn pride, discipline and most importantly fighting spirit not bowing down in the face of adversity. People can say that trainings are a chore and disrupt one's private life. These are the people who are complaining that CCA is but a burden. But those who see CCA positively and embrace the system, they learn time management, responsibility and dedication to whatever CCA they belong to. Perhaps what CCA can train us in may be percieved as you as but a narrow range of life skills. However this are precisely what our future employers may look for in a worker. Even if you are your own boss, an entrepreneur. If you lack discipline and fighting spirit, do you think you can achieve what predecessors such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have achieved? Ultimately the school system is designed to train us to be as all-rounded as possible. Please do not blame Singaporean or the system for the competitiveness of the environment. It is this very world we live in that dictate that we compete for survival. If you believe that by taking a slower pace route, a less packed school system would benefit our young, I urge you to reconsider. Their livelihood revolves around what skills and whether they have sound values and character. Yes the lifeskills you raised are important, but without even the fundamental grooming I believe what confront them would be greater problems such as that of having food on the table rather than an overly fast paced life or CCAs.
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Originally posted by eagle:
That's not true. My friends and I have applied before to US Ivy League universities as well as Stanford, Princeton, and UK universities like Imperial College and LSE and they do not ask for any CCA scores or records in their application forms.
They didn't ask. But people still send it to them..
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The thing is this. In any competitive scenario, what you choose to do isnt really within your control at all. Take this instance of submitting CCAs. Given it is not mandatory for you to send in your CCA records and you as the interview board of the university recieve 2 applications. One with the attached records showing his contribution to his community and service to the school as a student leader and the other do not have such supporting documents. Who would you give the place to given their academic results are on par?
The logic of using CCA as a grading basis for entry into tertiary instutions or scholarships is simple. Examination systems are becoming increasingly impaired in terms of ranking students for the evaluation by the various institutions to see if they merit a place in their university or for the scholarship. CCA provides an alternative spectrum whereby students can be judged for their values and leadership qualities. I do not doubt this system has its own limitations and i personally believe there is so much room for improvement in terms of making the system a more accurate gauge. But for now thats all we got to show if we are more worthy of a place in universities over our peers.
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What we need is not CCA, we need activities which are fun and involving at the same time educational.
I dont seeee how uniformed groups can build skills. It only breed elitism and false sense of pride and power,
I rather let my children if i have any, attend church , social education events then let them join CCA
with all the ECA as it was called last time, i was in NCC, was abused by the older farkers in sec 5 who try to show their power over u. When i complained to the techer who was in charge of NCC, he just farking shoved it on one side. Can u tell me what kind of farked up ECA is this?
With all these things, singaporeans have not build up any skills at all in interpersonal communication, taking leadership and responsibility. u can see it all in the adult working world,.
One of my uncles sent his son to Australia at age 18 after he didnt want him to continue studying here after his NS. Now the son is in his late 20s and have returned to singapore to work for a brief time. All i can say is he has much better work ettiquette, communication , and social skills than most singaporean adults. He satyed in the ozzie country for many years. think it hs helped him to be independent and more mature than our nanny state locals.
IF u did noticed it, its why Ang Moh is more confident in presenting himself than locals.
I had a similar expereince as this guy too just that i did not go there in my teens.
What we need is survivability skills, not CCA
Schools should offer classes on communication skills, drama, literary arts and others instead of stupid uniform groups run by a bunch of fools parading aimlessly in the hot sun.
next time if i have kid , i rather go out and teach him how to catch spider then let him join stupid CCA clubs. also a chance to spend time with parent and kid.
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Originally posted by speakup-:
But for now thats all we got to show if we are more worthy of a place in universities over our peers.
Only in competitive societies, But i really think universities should re assess their criteria. They should assess entry with ethical and EQ tests, or even SAT Test.
Studies show that top uni graduates do not necessarily possess EQ or interpersonal skills , or be effective managers.
In australia, a manager has to show that he can delegate duties and act like one.
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Originally posted by speakup-:
The thing is this. In any competitive scenario, what you choose to do isnt really within your control at all. Take this instance of submitting CCAs. Given it is not mandatory for you to send in your CCA records and you as the interview board of the university recieve 2 applications. One with the attached records showing his contribution to his community and service to the school as a student leader and the other do not have such supporting documents. Who would you give the place to given their academic results are on par?
The logic of using CCA as a grading basis for entry into tertiary instutions or scholarships is simple. Examination systems are becoming increasingly impaired in terms of ranking students for the evaluation by the various institutions to see if they merit a place in their university or for the scholarship. CCA provides an alternative spectrum whereby students can be judged for their values and leadership qualities. I do not doubt this system has its own limitations and i personally believe there is so much room for improvement in terms of making the system a more accurate gauge. But for now thats all we got to show if we are more worthy of a place in universities over our peers.
Do u know how overseas university shortlist applicants?
CCAs is definitely not of much priority.
But I agree that if you have records showing contribution and service to school, you would be better off.
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
What we need is not CCA, we need activities which are fun and involving at the same time educational.
I dont seeee how uniformed groups can build skills. It only breed elitism and false sense of pride and power,
I rather let my children if i have any, attend church , social education events then let them join CCA
with all the ECA as it was called last time, i was in NCC, was abused by the older farkers in sec 5 who try to show their power over u. When i complained to the techer who was in charge of NCC, he just farking shoved it on one side. Can u tell me what kind of farked up ECA is this?
With all these things, singaporeans have not build up any skills at all in interpersonal communication, taking leadership and responsibility. u can see it all in the adult working world,.
One of my uncles sent his son to Australia at age 18 after he didnt want him to continue studying here after his NS. Now the son is in his late 20s and have returned to singapore to work for a brief time. All i can say is he has much better work ettiquette, communication , and social skills than most singaporean adults. He satyed in the ozzie country for many years. think it hs helped him to be independent and more mature than our nanny state locals.
IF u did noticed it, its why Ang Moh is more confident in presenting himself than locals.
I had a similar expereince as this guy too just that i did not go there in my teens.
What we need is survivability skills, not CCA
Schools should offer classes on communication skills, drama, literary arts and others instead of stupid uniform groups run by a bunch of fools parading aimlessly in the hot sun.
next time if i have kid , i rather go out and teach him how to catch spider then let him join stupid CCA clubs. also a chance to spend time with parent and kid.
i pity your mother for giving birth to a retard like u
but u still bachelor
TOO BAD
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
What we need is not CCA, we need activities which are fun and involving at the same time educational.
I dont seeee how uniformed groups can build skills. It only breed elitism and false sense of pride and power,
I rather let my children if i have any, attend church , social education events then let them join CCA
with all the ECA as it was called last time, i was in NCC, was abused by the older farkers in sec 5 who try to show their power over u. When i complained to the techer who was in charge of NCC, he just farking shoved it on one side. Can u tell me what kind of farked up ECA is this?
With all these things, singaporeans have not build up any skills at all in interpersonal communication, taking leadership and responsibility. u can see it all in the adult working world,.
One of my uncles sent his son to Australia at age 18 after he didnt want him to continue studying here after his NS. Now the son is in his late 20s and have returned to singapore to work for a brief time. All i can say is he has much better work ettiquette, communication , and social skills than most singaporean adults. He satyed in the ozzie country for many years. think it hs helped him to be independent and more mature than our nanny state locals.
IF u did noticed it, its why Ang Moh is more confident in presenting himself than locals.
I had a similar expereince as this guy too just that i did not go there in my teens.
What we need is survivability skills, not CCA
Schools should offer classes on communication skills, drama, literary arts and others instead of stupid uniform groups run by a bunch of fools parading aimlessly in the hot sun.
next time if i have kid , i rather go out and teach him how to catch spider then let him join stupid CCA clubs. also a chance to spend time with parent and kid.
What we need is not CCA, we need activities which are fun and involving at the same time educational.
There are many CCAs which are fun and involving at the same time educational.
with all the ECA as it was called last time, i was in NCC, was abused by the older farkers in sec 5 who try to show their power over u. When i complained to the techer who was in charge of NCC, he just farking shoved it on one side. Can u tell me what kind of farked up ECA is this?
That's you.
With all these things, singaporeans have not build up any skills at all in interpersonal communication, taking leadership and responsibility. u can see it all in the adult working world,.
No link. Logical fallacy.
Schools should offer classes on communication skills, drama, literary arts and others instead of stupid uniform groups run by a bunch of fools parading aimlessly in the hot sun.
Don't know about your school. Mine did offer such classes.
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To wordlybusinessman, perhaps your poor experience in a uniform group during your time as a student in CCA has marred your impression of the system. As eagle has pointed out, the shortfalls mentioned by you is not prevalent in most CCAs. Perhaps your school's uniform group has failed as a CCA to achieve the expected aims of such a program in grooming its students but nonetheless its unfair to undermine the system based on such isolated cases.
I understand that being bullied by seniors and stuff like that are definitely unpleasant experiences but i can assure you that it is not just a problem in your CCA but other sports as well. In all communities even workplaces, its inevitable that there are such people around who like to flaunt their seniority and abuse their power. Even these negative experiences in CCA can be used as a training platform to adapt to such social conditions. At the end of the day if you can come out of it stronger, you have gained something out of the CCA and i believe that is precisely why the system was initiated in the first place.
The confidence that Angmohs exude had always been something i admired them for. Having been taught by British and American teachers before in my school days, i appreciate what the foreign education system has done for them. It is no doubt that Asians in comparison pale in terms of public speaking and presentation skills. What i must say is that in every country their education system has to serve their nation's needs. Perhaps Singapore's system is a bit narrow in the sense that we are groomed for a smaller range of jobs usually in the more professional fields such as Medicine and Engineering. Nonetheless it boils down to what our nation requires in our bid to develope into a knowledge-based economy. And as eagle has correctly pointed out again, some schools here have been continuously improving their system to give students more developmental courses such as communication skills and more exposure to the arts. Do bear in mind that as a 44 year old nation we still have a long way to go and given our current status our progress is already considered rather remarkable.
Regarding selection of candidates for university and scholarship, i agree that using EQ and personality tests would definitely be a fantastic system to scrutinize candidates to truly find the best man for the place. PSC conducts psychometric tests to assess candidates EQ and also their cognitive abilities prior to scholarship selection. As much as such tests can help, their effectiveness is limited by the fact that such tests have to be by and large generic given the huge logistical burden if they were supposed to be very specific. Complementing this is definitely interviews that is where candidates can best display their character through face to face interactions. Yes the system of evaluation can be improved, but it definitely does not render the CCA system useless in judging the candidates.
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
What we need is not CCA, we need activities which are fun and involving at the same time educational.
I dont seeee how uniformed groups can build skills. It only breed elitism and false sense of pride and power,
I rather let my children if i have any, attend church , social education events then let them join CCA
with all the ECA as it was called last time, i was in NCC, was abused by the older farkers in sec 5 who try to show their power over u. When i complained to the techer who was in charge of NCC, he just farking shoved it on one side. Can u tell me what kind of farked up ECA is this?
With all these things, singaporeans have not build up any skills at all in interpersonal communication, taking leadership and responsibility. u can see it all in the adult working world,.
One of my uncles sent his son to Australia at age 18 after he didnt want him to continue studying here after his NS. Now the son is in his late 20s and have returned to singapore to work for a brief time. All i can say is he has much better work ettiquette, communication , and social skills than most singaporean adults. He satyed in the ozzie country for many years. think it hs helped him to be independent and more mature than our nanny state locals.
IF u did noticed it, its why Ang Moh is more confident in presenting himself than locals.
I had a similar expereince as this guy too just that i did not go there in my teens.
What we need is survivability skills, not CCA
Schools should offer classes on communication skills, drama, literary arts and others instead of stupid uniform groups run by a bunch of fools parading aimlessly in the hot sun.
next time if i have kid , i rather go out and teach him how to catch spider then let him join stupid CCA clubs. also a chance to spend time with parent and kid.
Yes, CCA fails to produce result 100% of the time.
people who join gangs will become successful 100% of the time. no exceptions.
People who goes overseas and come back is better than locals 100% of the time.
therefore
people who went overseas to studies is ALWAYS better than local students
joining gang is a BETTER system than joining CCA.
When you join gangs, you don't have to LEARN to deal with seniors who might give you a hard time, and therefore make you street smart.
unlike CCA who force you to work with people and deal with all kinds of people, fussy superiors, problematic subodinates, back-stabbing peers which doesn't happens in real life EVER, and is therefore useless.
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Originally posted by skythewood:
Yes, CCA fails to produce result 100% of the time.
people who join gangs will become successful 100% of the time. no exceptions.
People who goes overseas and come back is better than locals 100% of the time.
therefore
people who went overseas to studies is ALWAYS better than local students
joining gang is a BETTER system than joining gangs.
When you join gangs, you don't have to LEARN to deal with seniors who might give you a hard time, and therefore make you street smart.
Last sentence best
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ts....u poor thing!! i can see alrdy watz it like when ur in NS
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Since TS probably has a grudge against how he was treated for however long the duration he was in NCC, I'd just like to note here that NCC these days are miles different from those during the 80's, 90's.
In fact, I find that NCC had numerous if not too many variety of activities given to us. Examples would be Camping, kayaking, paintball, hiking, visiting homes, etc. and most of the activities were welcomed
We would also frequently have our training shorten for us to have leisure time w/ any sports equipment available in school. We even frequently had joint performances with another CCA(English.. something something Club) during events such as Total Defence Day.Also I believe we were disciplined socially or otherwise which includes refraining the use of vulgar acts/words or any kind of activity that breaks the law i.e smoking. We were actually given lessons in class by the seniors how to properly converse formally and other things such as tying ropes(which eventually even I had to teach.. it was quite embarassing in a way).
Seeing my junior's junior now command
, I can definitely see the standards of strictness decrease immensely in comparison to when I joined (unfortunately also their overall discipline or maybe we just had more bad apples) when rules concerning the limit of how much we can drill into them were not made yet, which was during my third year so it was basically hellish training during the first two.Unfortunately, I can't vouch that the training wouldn't be harsh, it all depends on the community then; how harsh the seniors are and how able the juniors are. Honestly, the amount of people leaving NCC is apalling, it's not as if you were given a random CCA; you had a choice.
I definitely won't see such positive changes to my overall being either mentally or physically if it weren't for CCAs
... didn't realised I've typed so much when I just wanted to say the present is different from the past
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Posts are getting wordy and wordier. Anyway, being one WITH a CCA, this is what my elders (LOL) say-
CCAs are for you to groom your talent in something OTHER than education. If you just study and study, then seriously, you will lost all touch with the outside world.
If you aren't good in education, you may be good in sports, and it just takes CCA to find that out. Once you are in a CCA and have settled down, you will find that CCAs are essential for you to succeed in life. Like DramaClub, or ITClub, or Basketball. These CCAs groom you in that direction and you'll succeed one day.
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suaku fuck dont dare to reply liao
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It depends how you see CCA.
In my opinion, CCA is a way to get to know more people, for example, in Secondary Schools, you will get to meet your juniors or seniors.
In Polytechnic, you can get to know different people from different school and get to know them as well.
These are oppturnities for you to socialise and make different gendre of friends.
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last time in NCC i was asked to do 50 knuckle and diamond pushups, the same thing as in BMT,
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Originally posted by Worldlybusinessman:
last time in NCC i was asked to do 50 knuckle and diamond pushups, the same thing as in BMT,
It trained you for NS at least didn't it and isn't that 1 of the reasons most people join NCC? To get a taste and be prepared for NS life?
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the CCA system is good in some ways, yet bad in other ways .
Good:
it allows everyone to pick something they are interested in outside of school. the underprivilege can get to try out sports such as rock climbing, kayaking etc, FOC, activities which they normally couldn't afford on their own.
you get to make friends with a bunch of people who sweat it out together with you in the cca sessions, and lay the foundation of a really solid friendship, that would last beyond graduation.
the Bad:
it being mandatory for every student to sign up for one or more CCAs. frequently, popular CCAs like bowling and sailing are snatched up by just a few students, and the rest of the students are swept into CCAs of a more undesired nature ie. the uniform groups. (there are some genuinely interested students out their in NCC, scouts, etc, but there are just as many who are forced into it for the sake of getting a CCA). in that case, it becomes detrimental to the student's development being forced to do something he or she does not want to.
the CCA system has also been twisted to something where students participate for the sake of portfolio building, not of genuine interest. e.g. look at the student councils in schools. how many students are there within the councils, who really want to contribute their services to the school population? Instead, most are attracted by the prestige of being a student leader. this is certainly a disturbing and unhealthy trend.
so in conclusion, CCA should be non-compulsory for students. this would free up people who really want to pursue their interests, and students who are not interested in the activities offered can spend their time doing what they actually like.
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the CCA system has also been twisted to something where students participate for the sake of portfolio building, not of genuine interest. e.g. look at the student councils in schools. how many students are there within the councils, who really want to contribute their services to the school population? Instead, most are attracted by the prestige of being a student leader. this is certainly a disturbing and unhealthy trend.
Great point being brought up above actually. Whilst I have fervently advocated for the merits of CCA, the above mentioned is one aspect i absolutely cannot stand. Although i acknowledge the rat race culture of today as inevitable for progress and competition itself may actually benefit society, the culture of CIP-grabbing and running for council for obscene number of cip/service hours is certainly not a desired outcome. Personally hadnt done a large amount of CIP, only 2 major ones in my JC life and I can say I thoroughly enjoyed them as I could find meaning and purpose in what I had done. Those two were workshops conducting for less fortunate children.
Many people today pursue a place in the student council for a better cv. We cannot fault them for that cause there are incentives for them to do so (better education overseas, scholarships etc.) and it is perfectly rational to pursue those incentives. However what we can hope is to improve the evaluation system especially for CCAs such as council and CIP activities as what we are trying to promote in these 2 activities are more for grooming leaders and entrenching the idea of service to your community.
so in conclusion, CCA should be non-compulsory for students. this would free up people who really want to pursue their interests, and students who are not interested in the activities offered can spend their time doing what they actually like.
Unfortunately this is the part I still do not really agree with despite being mentioned several times in this thread already. Yes its is true no one likes to be forced. But if the CCA system were not enforced as compulsory, I can safely say 70% of the school population would not do CCA altogether. Even if you may be interested in soccer, you may be put off by the long and arduous training hours you have to put in. Who wouldnt prefer staying home to play computer and such? I know at this juncture people are going to say that there are those who are really passionate. Fair enough. But I always believe such 'humane' traits are often too sparsely existent to be reliable.
Yes I recognize that often 'hot' CCAs like bowling, canoeing, basketball etc. are often snapped up quickly and the unfortunate masses are 'shoved' into the less favored CCAs. In my secondary school the system is such that we are put through generic physical assessments together with trials for a few select sport CCAs to decide which CCAs we are posted to. I myself was put into a CCA I did not particularly enjoy (albeit it was a sports one). However I still feel I benefitted from the experience as I picked up a sport I would otherwise have never learnt. While the deprievation of choices often result in numerous unhappy individuals, it is inevitable that in the light of competition there must be winners and losers. This, though, is still not sufficient to justify that CCA should be voluntary because at the end of the day, CCA still benefits you whether it is one that you like or not. The whole idea of the system is exposure and grooming, not about giving you what you like. And I believe that many people would agree that afterall the world is unfair.
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Hi,
Let us rest the case, and move on with life's other priorities. Thanks!
Cheers,
Wen Shih