I think perhaps all of us students face this problem.
Our science teachers gave us tons of papers to do, which is really good. But almost all of them do not include answer sheets. We have to go back school to mark what we do. The reason they offer is that we might sell the papers with answers to the bras basah vendors, who wld sell to the public, which is an infringement of copyright and unfair for the teachers that set the papers.
I think this method of learning is really ineffecient. This effectively is lowering Singapore's ability to do well in O levels since almost alll the sec schools are affected. It would be much much more convenient if we had the answers at the back of the papers. Most importantly, cant MOE just sue the vendors or at least impose a penalty? MOE can definitely win a lawsuit since it is a big government organisation.
What are your opinions? Or am i mistaken, and that there is really no cure to this situation.
Enlighten me. Thanks
at first I thought there was copyright issues with sch exam papers
Till I noticed that quite a number of prelim questions actually repeat past year O level questions, completely. So basically, schools copy from each other, and copy from O levels papers (past years), perhaps with some modification.... so...
So again, use ExamWorld :D
Although still not enough questions yet :(
Is the teacher obliged to teach? yes.
Is the teacher obliged to give exam materials to students? No.
What can you do if your teacher doesn't give you answers to exam papers of other school?
They are doing it out of good will. Don't blame the guy who donate to charity that he is donating so little. be grateful that he is donating.
even my tys the answer sheet, only got some answer
wtf!
Originally posted by gunner77:even my tys the answer sheet, only got some answer
wtf!
is the tys answer sheet suppose to give all answers?
yes. go sue them.
ya .. i prefer those teachers that give papers for u to do, then take back n mark themself like a real test one.. those type better.. can let me see where i stand
Originally posted by icyboiz:ya .. i prefer those teachers that give papers for u to do, then take back n mark themself like a real test one.. those type better.. can let me see where i stand
Agree. My teacher usually marks section B and C for my chemistry paper but she lets us mark MCQ on our own.
Originally posted by eagle:at first I thought there was copyright issues with sch exam papers
Till I noticed that quite a number of prelim questions actually repeat past year O level questions, completely. So basically, schools copy from each other, and copy from O levels papers (past years), perhaps with some modification.... so...
So again, use ExamWorld :D
Although still not enough questions yet :(
Exactly.
I don't understand why when I was given some exam papers, or solutions written for some exam papers, my teacher say would say something like "Please do not share this with students from other schools", etc. But are schools even in a competitive state? Schools should be sharing resources for the benefit of all, and not be selfish and keep resources to themselves. After all the questions are the same, only with some modifications, etc.
What's more we're taught not to plagiarise in reports, etc. Then examination the teachers "plagiarise" other exams.
Originally posted by secretliker:
Exactly.I don't understand why when I was given some exam papers, or solutions written for some exam papers, my teacher say would say something like "Please do not share this with students from other schools", etc. But are schools even in a competitive state? Schools should be sharing resources for the benefit of all, and not be selfish and keep resources to themselves. After all the questions are the same, only with some modifications, etc.
What's more we're taught not to plagiarise in reports, etc. Then examination the teachers "plagiarise" other exams.
That's where you're wrong. Schools are in a competitive state. Then what for do people send their students to good schools and not to other available schools. The only way to rank a school as good or bad is by the results the students score in standardized exams where everyone's questions are the same, i.e. O-levels.
Even if the firm belief is that the teachers make the difference, the only way to measure this difference is by the school's annual O-level results.
So obviously, any advantage one school has, in the way of exam papers and solutions, the school is going to jealously guard this advantage.
But I must say, any school which is acting this way must be barely at the edge of being an average/good school. This school will want this kind of advantage to maintain their superiority or does not want it's secret out and end up like just another average school.
But enough of these negative feelings. On the bright side, at least this policy also forces the students to work through the problem completely on their own. I remember when preparing for O-levels, i will always peep at the answer if i get stuck. Was quick to learn but never really built confidence to face difficult problems head on.
Go with what your school requirements and after you leave, then be a judge as to the pros and cons of this kind of secrecy.
I believe the teachers did those on their own effort just for their own students...
Some of my school teachers who teaches some classes only give materials to their class and never SIC with other teachers as well.
I believe its all human nature, to see your OWN students to excel and be selfish to only want to see your students benefit than own school students, or even other school students.
Nonetheless, back to the topic...I believe the very least the teacher could provide you is the answer sheet and not solution sheet though.
My school does share and get other schools' papers. I have tons of other schools' 2008 prelim paper, and most of them are better than our school. And those schools should also have our schools' paper. Not that much of secrecy in my case. However, my school prohibits sharing of certain papers. We are only allowed to do the ''very specially collated'' papers in school. Again this just compromises our learning.
1) Thing is- why is ''the fear of bras basah selling our papers'' hindering our learning? Especially when this factor could simply be solved by a lawsuit against them for infringement of copyright.
2) Anyone would know how inconvenient it is to have to go school to check answers like everyday. Problems dont get solved immediately, it just reduces the effeciency in learning. When we go school and see our friends we tend to get distracted and waste alot of time.(XD) That, contrary to having all your stuffs available and studying peacefully for 7 hours at home.
Don't our fellow O levelers face the same problem?
Gt ans ... Wrong one lor... LOL
Originally posted by davidche:My school does share and get other schools' papers. I have tons of other schools' 2008 prelim paper, and most of them are better than our school. And those schools should also have our schools' paper. Not that much of secrecy in my case. However, my school prohibits sharing of certain papers. We are only allowed to do the ''very specially collated'' papers in school. Again this just compromises our learning.
1) Thing is- why is ''the fear of bras basah selling our papers'' hindering our learning? Especially when this factor could simply be solved by a lawsuit against them for infringement of copyright.
2) Anyone would know how inconvenient it is to have to go school to check answers like everyday. Problems dont get solved immediately, it just reduces the effeciency in learning. When we go school and see our friends we tend to get distracted and waste alot of time.(XD) That, contrary to having all your stuffs available and studying peacefully for 7 hours at home.
Don't our fellow O levelers face the same problem?
Firstly Bras Pasar isn't the one that produces the paper. I've spoken with the owners. They have a "supplier". BP merely sells them.
And speaking of which how would you know about BP? You sneaky turd... you bought from them, did all the papers and benefited from it and now youre suggesting a lawsuit against them?
Finally everyone gets papers from school and can easily buy asessment books and stuff. Having the resource is one thing, and doing it is another thing.
If just having papers would be like an elixir to scoring high marks, then alot of people will score straight As (atleast for prelims since O lvls has the bell curve)
I know alot of people have access to other school test papers and such. Word gets around easily in Singapore. Think about it, one day some fashion statement thing is being sold and next thing you know, wham! alot of people are already going there.
Your average student just does some of the papers the school provides and the entire TYS.
And speaking of which how would you know about BP? You sneaky turd... you bought from them, did all the papers and benefited from it and now youre suggesting a lawsuit against them?
I have never brought from Bras Basah exam papers before. My school provides enough papers and i thank the school for that. How did i know of Bras Basah? As i have said in my post, thats BB is the reason my teachers dont include the answers.They say that scripts without answers have a big decrease in value. BB is prolly the big famous one. There are many other stores.
Btw, why do you say Bras Pasar?
Finally everyone gets papers from school and can easily buy asessment books and stuff. Having the resource is one thing, and doing it is another thing.
If just having papers would be like an elixir to scoring high marks, then alot of people will score straight As (atleast for prelims since O lvls has the bell curve)
The reason i actually have this complaint would be because i actually do the papers, and face problem in marking it. Also, the more important process is when you actually mark and learn from your mistakes.
My sch all got ans sheet
Actually what i think is that every single sch use the same prelim pprs or revision pprs. liddat there won't be a situation whereby schs competing with schs, then turns to a situation whereby the gud schs getting better but the lousier schs gets even worst.
Well with all due I respect, I frankly hate the fact that people make tonnes of smackeroon over this exam papers..
The guy that sells it has only three things, a place to sell, networking to collect different papers from different schools and the materials in photocopying. But the price they place on a set of test papers is ridiculous. As a student from a single parent debt ridden family, the 30$ I had to pay to buy the N level prelim maths resulted in me having to starve so as to save my pocket money...
I haven't heard other stalls but I know BB since its a well known bookshop.
And I agree with what you're saying as I too have experienced it and will, even more since I still have next year... I have to say though, I am one of those people who peek into the answer scripts when I have trouble figuring the answer out. So it helps sometimes to attempt the paper first and then go back to school to get the full worked solutions.
Originally posted by xXBlack_RebelXx:Well with all due I respect, I frankly hate the fact that people make tonnes of smackeroon over this exam papers..
The guy that sells it has only three things, a place to sell, networking to collect different papers from different schools and the materials in photocopying. But the price they place on a set of test papers is ridiculous. As a student from a single parent debt ridden family, the 30$ I had to pay to buy the N level prelim maths resulted in me having to starve so as to save my pocket money...
I haven't heard other stalls but I know BB since its a well known bookshop.
And I agree with what you're saying as I too have experienced it and will, even more since I still have next year... I have to say though, I am one of those people who peek into the answer scripts when I have trouble figuring the answer out. So it helps sometimes to attempt the paper first and then go back to school to get the full worked solutions.
That's why got ExamWorld lor
Although so far, I have been digging up lots of pre-1999, but in syllabus, questions (a lot from RI and RGS) to add on it. Cuz I believe your schools would have given you rather updated papers :)
But eagle under e maths > a certain topic > very few questions leh? :s e.g for probability you only have 2 questions?
Originally posted by xXBlack_RebelXx:Well with all due I respect, I frankly hate the fact that people make tonnes of smackeroon over this exam papers..
The guy that sells it has only three things, a place to sell, networking to collect different papers from different schools and the materials in photocopying. But the price they place on a set of test papers is ridiculous. As a student from a single parent debt ridden family, the 30$ I had to pay to buy the N level prelim maths resulted in me having to starve so as to save my pocket money...
I haven't heard other stalls but I know BB since its a well known bookshop.
And I agree with what you're saying as I too have experienced it and will, even more since I still have next year... I have to say though, I am one of those people who peek into the answer scripts when I have trouble figuring the answer out. So it helps sometimes to attempt the paper first and then go back to school to get the full worked solutions.
Don't worry. You don't have to spend a cent next year. I have collected 30ish sets of O level EM/AM and N level NA/NT prelims 2008 papers each... total of hundreds of papers (which I am still sorting out). Most of which come with answer keys. Freely available to everyone who send in a paper in pdf format which is not in my database. So if you still have those papers your teacher gave you. Keep them and send in to me in exchange for free access to my database.
And this does not even include those papers my students' teacher gave them which I should be collecting from them after their exams next week.
I am thinking of how to implement a sharing ratio system... such as can download 10 papers for every paper sent in. Why can't be just freely available to all? Let's just say for those papers I got from a teacher friend, I got to convert paper 1 & 2 from doc format into pdf... then combine into 1 pdf. Rename the pdf files. And those I scan... have to scan, then combine jpg into pdf file, optimise for size... after that I got to upload, configure download system. The work in preparing the documents is approximately a day for every 20 sets.
Now spread the work around and everyone just spend 30mins contributing a few sets of papers and everyone benefit.
Originally posted by xXBlack_RebelXx:But eagle under e maths > a certain topic > very few questions leh? :s e.g for probability you only have 2 questions?
still building... Just started not long ago... :(
You can help contribute too :D It is for the benefit of all students
Originally posted by Mikethm:Don't worry. You don't have to spend a cent next year. I have collected 30ish sets of O level EM/AM and N level NA/NT prelims 2008 papers each... total of hundreds of papers (which I am still sorting out). Most of which come with answer keys. Freely available to everyone who send in a paper in pdf format which is not in my database. So if you still have those papers your teacher gave you. Keep them and send in to me in exchange for free access to my database.
And this does not even include those papers my students' teacher gave them which I should be collecting from them after their exams next week.
I am thinking of how to implement a sharing ratio system... such as can download 10 papers for every paper sent in. Why can't be just freely available to all? Let's just say for those papers I got from a teacher friend, I got to convert paper 1 & 2 from doc format into pdf... then combine into 1 pdf. Rename the pdf files. And those I scan... have to scan, then combine jpg into pdf file, optimise for size... after that I got to upload, configure download system. The work in preparing the documents is approximately a day for every 20 sets.
Now spread the work around and everyone just spend 30mins contributing a few sets of papers and everyone benefit.
WOW Yummy!! Too bad you said this wayy to late liao.
Originally posted by davidche:WOW Yummy!! Too bad you said this wayy to late liao.
This year 1st year of new syllabus... too busy reorganising my strategy against the evil O level papers mah. :X
Originally posted by xXBlack_RebelXx:But eagle under e maths > a certain topic > very few questions leh? :s e.g for probability you only have 2 questions?
btw, for your feedback, I am going to add a few more probability questions tonight... managed to dig out an old E maths book from RGS from my gf's house. It consists of revision exercises compiled from various schools' 1993 and 1996 prelim papers :D
Will add those in syllabus