do you believe ???
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As a buddhist do you believe that once the person died his/her spirit will visit his/her family and relative after the 7th days in the lunar calander.
Or by burning more incenses paper and enaging a priest to sing the merit to the deity will ensure him/her to reach the western paradise faster?
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No. There is no rule what time or date a deceased person comes to 'visit' you.
When you die, depending on your good or bad karma, you can be reborn in these realms:
3 higher realms: human, asura, heaven
3 lower realms: animals, ghost, hell
Only if your deceased family member fall into the ghost realm will they 'come back to visit'. And it is not the case that they 'come back', sometimes it can be that they are too attached that they linger around. That's why sometimes they are being seen. It is all possible.
And if you read my earlier thread, you will know that engaging in a priest to sing the merit to deity, will not make a person be reborn in the western pure land.
That person must practice chanting Amituofuo himself and must accumulate the merits and conditions to be reborn in pure land.
And as a Buddhist, my advice is to engage in Buddhist monks to perform whatever pujas... especially if you want your deceased relative to be reborn in pure land.
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thank an eternal now .if it is possible to for me to enagage a buddhist monks to perform the pujas in the buddhist temple while his remain is in taoist temple (respect due someone insisted).
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Although there is no rule on the time or date of visit. I was told by a relative and his family member that her grandfather passed away about 20 years ago then, that he spirit came back on the 7th day with obvious signs of visit.
Burning more incenses paper will not ensure him/her to reach the western paradise faster but will make him more riches. But inchantation of sutra and repent on behalf, transfer merits of inchantation of blessing together would surely elevate the spirit to enjoy good rebirth, blessings in next life, and even to western paradise to become Buddha if the deceased has the flair to accept to pursuade and having faith, vow and practice together
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i think the taoist method is to help the spirit to live better off (material in the hade world)
while the Buddhist method is to help the spirit to be released from its hade world and to be reborn in the paradise or to a better next life.
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Seems to me Taoist can only achieve the status of a Deity while cultivating well during a living lifetime but once the person is dead , it's all about how to live well in the hade world while waiting for reborn.
Or at least not to suffer badly in the hade world. To be bully by the other ghosts or to be wandering lost, hungry and pathetic.
It's like how to take care of the spirit in its dead status. There are many methods and rituals.
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i think 'Taoist' (better ones) can also lead the spirit to release from the ghost realm, i.e. reborn into human realm. or perhaps heavenly realm but not yet out of desire realm 欲界. as form realm 色界 and above need meditation virtue or self effort. formless realm, don't even think.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
i think 'Taoist' (better ones) can also lead the spirit to release from the ghost realm, i.e. reborn into human realm. or perhaps heavenly realm but not yet out of desire realm 欲界. as form realm 色界 and above need meditation virtue or self effort. formless realm, don't even think.
how do i know the Taoist that we enage is a better one?
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that is very tough to know. Either by the age of the taoist priest, the certification and his background, for eg if he is trained in Wudang since a young boy and he is still a Taoist priest at age 60.
Else it will be by word of mouth like a previous family who engaged a Taoist and dreamt of good news from the deceased. You need to know this family quite well and can trust their words.
If you can afford it, get those Taoist from China Wudang mountain. They are properly trained in all the ancient rituals and some grew up there as boys. Destined to be a priest due to karma.
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As far as i know, the 70 years old Taoist temple at Macpherson Arumagan road always engaged Taoist priests from China , especially from Wudang mountain.
here is their website
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
i think 'Taoist' (better ones) can also lead the spirit to release from the ghost realm, i.e. reborn into human realm. or perhaps heavenly realm but not yet out of desire realm 欲界. as form realm 色界 and above need meditation virtue or self effort. formless realm, don't even think.
It can and depends on the enlightenment understanding on the taoism literature like Dao-De-Jing. If fact, dao-de-jing is same as Buddha level. Basically, the blessings could only assist to the 欲界, likely is first 2 levels of heavenly beings.
In fact, the deceased family of the above can enjoy the best of all world approaching the Buddhism (Pureland, Esoteric, Zen and Theravada traditions) and taoism puja for blessings to the decease since there are quite many fa hui going on, simply just �喜 on behalf of the decease.
Amitayus
Sutra on the original Vows & the attainment of merits of the Ksitigabha Bodhisattva
Shortly thereafter a maidservant in the house bore a son who spoke before he was three days old. Lowering his head and weeping he said to Bright Eyes, The karmic conditions we create during our lives and deaths result in retributions that we ourselves must undergo. I was your mother and have been in darkness for a long time. Since you and I parted I have repeatedly fallen into the great hells. Upon receiving the power of your blessings, I have gained rebirth as a servant.s child with a short lifespan. Thirteen years from now, I will fall into the evil paths again. Do you have some way to free me so that I can avoid them? The maidservant's child answered. I am undergoing retribution for two kinds of karma: killing and slandering. Had I not received the blessings you earned to rescue me from difficulty, I would not yet be released from that karma.
Sweet Swarnlata's Story from Ian Stevenson
The story of Swarnlata is characteristic of Stevenson's cases: the young girl's memories began when she was 3, she gave enough information to enable Stevenson to locate the family of the deceased person she remembered (the case was "solved"), and she gave more than 50 specific facts that were verified. But Swarnlata's case was also different from most because her memories did not fade. And this is a sweet case, characterized by love and happy memories rather than by violent death and struggles between castes and families, like in so many other cases.
Swarnlata Mishra was born to an intellectual and prosperous family in Pradesh in India in 1948. When she was just three years old and traveling with her father past the town of Katni more than 100 miles from her home, she suddenly pointed and asked the driver to turn down a road to "my house", and suggested they could get a better cup of tea there than they could on the road.
Soon after, she related more details of her life in Katni, all of which were written down by her father. She said her name was Biya Pathak, and that she had two sons. She gave details of the house: it was white with black doors fitted with iron bars; four rooms were stuccoed, but other parts were less finished; the front floor was of stone slabs. She located the house in Zhurkutia, a district of Katni; behind the house was a girl's school, in front was a railway line, and lime furnaces were visible from the house. She added that the family had a motor car (a very rare item in India in the 1950's, and especially before Swarnlata was born). Swarnlata said Biya died of a "pain in her throat", and was treated by Dr. S. C. Bhabrat in Jabalpur. She also remembered an incident at a wedding when she and a friend had difficulty finding a latrine.
In the spring of 1959, when Swarnlata was 10 years old, news of the case reached Professor Sri H. N. Banerjee, an Indian researcher of paranormal phenomenon and colleague of Stevenson. Banerjee took the notes her father made and traveled to Katni to determine if Swarnlata's memories could be verified.
Using nothing more than the description that Swarnlata had given, he found the house--despite the house having been enlarged and improved since 1939 when Biya died. It belonged to the Pathak's (a common name in India), a wealthy, prominent family, with extensive business interests. The lime furnaces were on land adjoining the property; the girls school was 100 yards behind the Pathak's property, but not visible from the front.
He interviewed the family and verified everything Swarnlata had said. Biya Pathak had died in 1939 leaving behind a grieving husband, two young sons, and many younger brothers. These Pathaks had never heard of the Mishra family, who lived a hundred miles away; the Mishra's had no knowledge of the Pathak family.
The next scene in this story sounds like a plot from Agatha Christie, but is all true, extracted from the Stevenson's tabulations in Swarnlata's published case. In the summer of 1959, Biya's husband, son, and eldest brother journeyed to the town of Chhatarpur, the town where Swarnlata now lived, to test Swarnlata's memory. They did not reveal their identities or purpose to others in the town, but enlisted nine townsmen to accompany them to the Mishar home, where they arrived unannounced.
Swarnlata immediately recognized her brother and called him "Babu", Biya's pet name for him. Stevenson gives only the barest facts, but I can imagine the emotions ran high at this point. Imagine how Babu felt to be recognized immediately by his dead sister reborn.
Ten-year-old Swarnlata went around the room looking at each man in turn; some she identified as men she knew from her town, some were strangers to her. Then she came to Sri Chintamini Pandey, Biya's husband. Swarnlata lowered her eyes, looked bashful--as Hindu wives do in the presence of their husbands--and spoke his name. Stevenson says nothing of Sri Pandey's reaction at finding his wife after twenty years
Swarnlata also correctly identified her son from her past life, Murli, who was 13 years old when Biya died. But Murli schemed to mislead her, and "for almost twenty-four hours insisted against her objections that he was not Murli, but someone else." Murli had also brought along a friend and tried to mislead Swarnlata once again by insisting he was Naresh, Biya's other son, who was about the same age as this friend. Swarnlata insisted just as strongly that he was a stranger.
Finally, Swarnlata reminded Sri Pandey that he had purloined 1200 rupees Biya kept in a box. Sri Pandey admitted to the truth of this private fact that only he and his wife had known.Amitayus
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Originally posted by Wiser:
As far as i know, the 70 years old Taoist temple at Macpherson Arumagan road always engaged Taoist priests from China , especially from Wudang mountain.
here is their website
thank as a matter of fact both my grandparent and grand uncle ashes are resided in this temple .Where my father is at some where else after listen to my mother side big cousin advise.
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Some time ago, I did post about deceased let their loved ones dreamt of their sufferings in the lower realm (ghost realm). Today, I heard of another case of a relative of my neighbour who converted to "heavenly religion" but suffered in the ghost realm. She let her loved ones dreamt that she was very hungry. Her funeral was "heavenly religion". I've heard countless of cases like this one.
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Hi E.Y.A.J, if you wish, you may take up chanting and transfer your merit at the end of each chanting session.
This will help the deceased accrue some merits over time.
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I believe one is related only through matter. That is your body is related, to your father, mother, etc the rest of your family.
The body is returned to the earth when you die.
Your spirit, soul, your consciousness, is not made of matter. It is neither created or destroyed. Therefore when your spirit/soul/consciousness is free of the body, it is no different from the spirit/soul/consciousness of your parents, or siblings. It is no greater or lesser, nor has an hierachy in terms of father/mother or elder brother/sister or younger.
Simply put, a body can say that that is my mother, but a spirit cannot say that is my mother, as the (mother) spirit did not create the (child) spirit..
So the spirit/soul/consciousness that you like meet would be an independent entity, that was once in the body of your parents.
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We cling to the memory of our loved ones even if they have passed on,
It is the time they shared with us that have us attached to memories of them.Our consciousness are shaped by conditions , past and prevailingIt is we what we address ourselve "I", how we are percieved by others -
Originally posted by mancha:
I believe one is related only through matter. That is your body is related, to your father, mother, etc the rest of your family.
The body is returned to the earth when you die.
Your spirit, soul, your consciousness, is not made of matter. It is neither created or destroyed. Therefore when your spirit/soul/consciousness is free of the body, it is no different from the spirit/soul/consciousness of your parents, or siblings. It is no greater or lesser, nor has an hierachy in terms of father/mother or elder brother/sister or younger.
Simply put, a body can say that that is my mother, but a spirit cannot say that is my mother, as the (mother) spirit did not create the (child) spirit..
So the spirit/soul/consciousness that you like meet would be an independent entity, that was once in the body of your parents.
where did you get this theory from? quote the sutra or the dharma master who say this.
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Originally posted by mancha:
I believe one is related only through matter. That is your body is related, to your father, mother, etc the rest of your family.
The body is returned to the earth when you die.
Your spirit, soul, your consciousness, is not made of matter. It is neither created or destroyed. Therefore when your spirit/soul/consciousness is free of the body, it is no different from the spirit/soul/consciousness of your parents, or siblings. It is no greater or lesser, nor has an hierachy in terms of father/mother or elder brother/sister or younger.
Simply put, a body can say that that is my mother, but a spirit cannot say that is my mother, as the (mother) spirit did not create the (child) spirit..
So the spirit/soul/consciousness that you like meet would be an independent entity, that was once in the body of your parents.
We are not only related through matter, but by the vast storehouse of karmic seeds and latent imprints, tendencies, and memories, known as the Alaya Vijnana or the 8th consciousness.
This is why sometimes when you glance someone, he seems likeable, familiar, or sometimes unlikeable.
As my Master say, if we meet someone and have a good impression of him/her on first glance, and he/she did the same thing (glance at you and have a good impression), you had at least 6 months of strong relation with him/her in some form in previous lives.
By the way, consciousness is not matter, but in Buddhism, consciousness is also not a soul - it is an impermanent stream of consciousness arising according to conditions, and this stream and tendencies is what continues - there is no fixed, unchanging entity. Rather than saying there is 'A Consciousness', it is more accurate to say that there is 'Consciousness-1, Consciousness-2, Consciousness-3' succeeding each other according in lightning speed every moment according cause and effect, and yet even this is not quite complete because each moment of consciousness is also empty of independent existence and cannot be established.
Seeing this, Consciousness is realized as not being a knower or experiencer or controller or self or agent (there is no perceiver apart from the perceived) - rather, it is empty of self and independent existence, is a manifestation that dependently originates. This is the realization of Anatta and Emptiness, and this realization liberates.
http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
Then the Blessed One said: "Sati, is it true, that such an pernicious view has arisen to you. ‘As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else’?"
"Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else."
"Sati, what is that consciousness?"
"Venerable sir, it is that which feels and experiences, that which reaps the results of good and evil actions done here and there."
"Foolish man, to whom do you know me having taught the Dhamma like this. Haven’t I taught, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet you, foolish man, on account of your wrong view, you misrepresent me, as well as destroy yourself and accumulate much demerit, for which you will suffer for a long time."
Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: "Bhikkhus, what do you think, has this this bhikkhu Sati, son of a fisherman, learned anything from this dispensation?" "No, venerable sir."
When this was said the bhikkhu Sati became silent, unable to reply back, and sat with drooping shoulders and eyes turned down. Then the Blessed One, knowing that the bhikkhu Sati had become silent, unable to reply back, and was sitting with drooping shoulders and with eyes turned down, told him: "Foolish man, you will be known on account of this pernicious view; now I will question the bhikkhus on this."
Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: "Bhikkhus, do you too know of this Teaching, the wrong view of the bhikkhu Sati, the son of a fisherman, on account of which he misrepresents us and also destroys himself and accumulates much suffering?"
"No, venerable sir. In various ways we have been taught that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause there is no arising of consciousness."
"Good, bhikkhus! Good that you know the Dhamma taught by me. In various ways I have taught that consciousness arises dependently. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, this bhikkhu Sati, son of a fisherman, by holding to this wrong view, misrepresents us and destroys himself and accumulates much demerit, and it will be for his suffering for a long time.
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. If consciousness arises on account of eye and forms, it is reckoned as eye consciousness. If on account of ear and sounds it arises, it is reckoned as ear consciousness. If on account of nose and smells it arises, it is reckoned as nose consciousness. If on account of tongue and tastes it arises, it is reckoned as tongue consciousness. If on account of body and touch it arises, it is reckoned as body consciousness. If on account of mind and mind-objects it arises, it is reckoned as mind consciousness. Bhikkhus, just as a fire is reckoned based on whatever that fire burns - fire ablaze on sticks is a stick fire, fire ablaze on twigs is a twig fire, fire ablaze on grass is a grass fire, fire ablaze on cowdung is a cowdung fire, fire ablaze on grain thrash is a grain thrash fire, fire ablaze on rubbish is a rubbish fire - so too is consciousness reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. In the same manner consciousness arisen on account is eye and forms is eye consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of ear and sounds is ear consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of nose and smells is nose consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of tongue and tastes is taste consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of body and touch is body consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of mind and mind-objects is mind consciousness.
"Bhikkhus, do you see, This has arisen?" "Yes, venerable sir". "Do you see it arises supported by That?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, Do you see if the support ceases, the arising too ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, when you are not sure whether something has arisen do doubts arise?" "Yes, venerable sir." "When you are not sure why something has arisen, do doubts arise?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, when you are not sure that with ceasing of a certain support, that the arisen too would cease, do doubts arise?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, do your doubts fade when you see with right wisdom, that something has arisen?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do your doubts fade when you see with right wisdom, that something arises with a support?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do your doubts fade when you sees with right wisdom that with the cessation of its supports, the arisen also ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, This has arisen - are your doubts dispelled about that?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, This has arisen with That as support - are your doubts dispelled about that?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, when that support ceases, the arising too ceases - are your doubts dispelled about that?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkhus, do you clearly see, as it really is, with right wisdom, this is arising?." "Yes,venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do you clearly see, with right wisdom, that this arises supported?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, do you clearly see, with right wisdom, that when the support ceases the arising too ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkkhus, as purified and bright as this view is, if you covet, cherish, treasure and take pride in it, do you understand this Dhamma as comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up [i.e. crossing over] and not for the purpose of grasping?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, as purified and bright as this view is, if you do not covet, cherish, treasure and take pride in it, would you then know this Dhamma as comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up [i.e. crossing over] and not for the purpose of grasping?" "Yes, venerable sir."
"Bhikkkhus, as purified and bright as this view is, if you covet, cherish, treasure and take pride in it, do you understand this Dhamma as comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up [i.e. crossing over] and not for the purpose of grasping?" "No, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, as purified and bright as this view is, if you do not covet, cherish, treasure and take pride in it, would you then know this Dhamma as comparable to a raft, taught for the purpose of giving up [i.e. crossing over] and not for the purpose of grasping?" "Yes, venerable sir."