reaching the western heaven

• E.Y.A.J

  25 Feb 11, 21:51

  just wandering does an elderly died and his  son or daughter perform the toaist rites and possession during the furneral wake.

  1 ) will he reach the western unverisal or heaven ?

  2) when the taoist priest sing and praise about him does that mean that he will be surly in entry into the heaven and become a deity?

   

  what is your point toward this from buddhist's view?

• 2009novice

  26 Feb 11, 01:19

  May I know why ask a taoist questions here in a buddhist forum...?

  It's quite irrelevant... sorry

• Weychin

  26 Feb 11, 02:18

  If he have done good deeds and reaped good karma, he can be born in higher realms, however, if he in his lifetime chanted Amitabha and able to singularly hold to that thought then, he can be born in Western Paradise. 

• sinweiy

  26 Feb 11, 16:54

  Originally posted by E.Y.A.J:

  just wandering does an elderly died and his  son or daughter perform the toaist rites and possession during the furneral wake.

  1 ) will he reach the western unverisal or heaven ?

  2) when the taoist priest sing and praise about him does that mean that he will be surly in entry into the heaven and become a deity?

   

  what is your point toward this from buddhist's view?

  yea, u must be mixing Buddhism view and folk "Taoism" view. got to make sure first. 
  western unverisal as in western pureland/Land of Ultimate Bliss è¥¿æ–¹æž�ä¹�世界?

  in Buddhism, 西方æž�ä¹�世界 is way different from the concept of heaven. heaven is a realm of happiness. Land of Ultimate Bliss is beyond happiness and suffering. beyond happiness doesn't really mean more than happiness. as happiness will also end up in suffering, in Buddhist teaching . Land of Ultimate Bliss is no more happiness, hence it's "Ultimate Bliss".

  for example, imagine u have ur favourite food, u feel happy when eating it. first few day u eat the same food over and over again. at first u feel happy, then u become sick of it and u suffer. hence this kind of happiness is what we call heavenly happiness. it's not lasting happiness.  deity will also "die" one day and be reborn in human or other realms.

  /\

   

   

• sinweiy

  26 Feb 11, 17:07

   

   

  Comparison between heavens and the Pure Land

   

  [19] The Buddha said to Ananda, "What you say is true. Even though a

  king is the noblest of all men and has a regal countenance, if he is

  compared with a wheel-turning monarch, he will appear as base and

  inferior as a beggar beside a king. Likewise, however excellent and

  unrivaled the majestic appearance of such a monarch may be, [272a] if

  he is compared with the lord of the Heaven of the Thirty-three Gods,

  he will also appear incomparably inferior, even ten thousands kotis

  of times more so. Again, if this heavenly lord is compared with the

  lord of the Sixth Heaven, he will appear a hundred thousand kotis of

  times inferior. If the lord of the Sixth Heaven is compared with a

  bodhisattva or a shravaka dwelling in the land of Amitayus, his

  countenance and appearance will be far from matching those of the

  bodhisattva or shravaka, being a thousand million kotis of times or

  even incalculable times inferior."

   

   

  http://www.shinuglyblog.com/larger_sutra_1.htm

   

   

  /\

   

• Amitayus48

  27 Feb 11, 10:31

  Amitabha and its Western Paradise in fact is the collections and subsequently developed based on all varying degrees of joys, peace, harmony, serenity of all sentient beings as well as super calm of all Buddha. It encompassed the unsurpassed vow of liberating sentient beings to its Buddha stage.

  邊地疑城第四å��  

  佛告慈�：若有眾生，以疑惑心修諸功德，願生彼國。�了佛智���議智���稱智�大乘廣智�無等無倫最上�智，於此諸智，疑惑�信。猶信罪�，修習善本，願生其國。復有眾生，�集善根，希求佛智�普�智�無等智��德廣大��議智。於自善根，�能生信。故於往生清淨佛國，�志猶豫，無所專據。然猶續念�絕。�其善願為本，續得往生。是諸人等，以此因緣，雖生彼國，�能�至無�壽所。�止佛國界邊，七寶城中。佛�使爾，身行所作，心自趣�。亦有寶池蓮�，自然�身。飲食快樂，如忉利天。於其城中，�能得出。所居�宅在地，�能隨�高大。於五百歲，常�見佛，��經法，�見�薩���眾。其人智慧�明，知經復少。心�開解，��歡樂。是故於彼謂之胎生。若有眾生，明信佛智，乃至�智，斷除疑惑，信己善根，作諸功德，至心回�。皆於七寶�中，自然化生，�趺而�。須臾之頃，身相光明，智慧功德，如諸�薩，具足�就。彌勒當知，彼化生者，智慧�故。其胎生者，五百歲中，�見三寶，�知�薩法�，�得修習功德，無因奉事無�壽佛。當知此人，宿世之時，無有智慧，疑惑所致。

  Then the Buddha said to Ananda and the Bodhisattva Maitreya, “Have you seen that land filled with excellent and glorious manifestations, all spontaneously produced, from the ground to the Heaven of Pure Abode?” Ananda replied, “Yes, I have.” The Buddha asked, “Have you also heard the great voice of Amitayus expound the Dharma to all the worlds, guiding sentient beings to the Way of the Buddha?” Ananda replied, “Yes, I have.” The Buddha further asked, “Have you also seen the inhabitants of that land move freely, riding in seven-jewelled airborne palaces as large as a hundred thousand yojanas, to worship the Buddhas of the lands in the ten quarters?“Yes, I have,” replied Ananda. “Have you also seen that some of the inhabitants are in the embryonic state?” “Yes, I have. Those in the embryonic state dwell in palaces as high as a hundred yojanas or five hundred yojanas, where they spontaneously enjoy pleasures as do those in the Heaven of the Thirty-three Gods.” – http://www.fodian.net/world/360.html

• An Eternal Now

  27 Feb 11, 11:11

  Originally posted by E.Y.A.J:

  just wandering does an elderly died and his  son or daughter perform the toaist rites and possession during the furneral wake.

  1 ) will he reach the western unverisal or heaven ?

  2) when the taoist priest sing and praise about him does that mean that he will be surly in entry into the heaven and become a deity?

   

  what is your point toward this from buddhist's view?

  1) No. You can only reach Amitabha's Western Pure Land by chanting Namo Amituofuo until a state of undistractedness and one-mindedness. Furthermore you must acquire the following conditions:

  http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no2e.htm

  
  9. Besides chanting Amitabha Buddha, what else should one practise?
  
  Practitioners of the method of chanting the Buddha's name not only recite "Amitabha Buddha", but in addition should also cultivate merits. It is stated in the Amitabha Sutra that rebirth in the Western Pure Land is not possible via conditions that are lacking in virtuous roots, blessings and merits. For instance, when we have practised and perfected the Six Parameters (1. Observing the Precepts, 2. Endurance, 3. Giving, 4. Zeal and Progress, 5. Meditation, and 6. Wisdom), then to be reborn in the Western Pure Land is a simple matter. If you have accomplished a mind that is as pure as the Amitabha Buddha's, then there is no necessity for Amitabha Buddha to come and guide you to the Western Pure Land. At that time you are already a great Bodhisattva. Not only can a great Bodhisattva go the Western Pure Land; he can go to any pure land as he pleases. .

   

  2) No. A person is reborn according to his wholesome and unwholesome karma, and rituals cannot help. Also: heaven is not ultimate, as others have pointed out. You still pass away in heaven and become reborn in other realms eventually, you still end up in suffering.

• E.Y.A.J

  27 Feb 11, 16:10

  thank. _(|)_ amitofo