Conventionally, to experience non-local aspect of pristine awareness is through concentration. It is the job of concentration. Concentration till one enters into a deep stage of absorption and object-subject becomes one, a state of transcendenceAs Thusness wrote in The Different Degrees of Non-Duality,
Regarding this part, maybe you need to do some explanation, how is it that concentration can lead to the dissolving of 'object-subject'... it is very suspicious and feels more like one of the worldly meditative states... i think the object-subject dissolution or nonduality is used too loosely and leaves out the possibility of subtle fixation.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Seeing the future is definitely within the province of shamatha, in fact it is said that even ghosts can tell the future (though to a limited extent according to Ven Chin Kung). Even if you can see future through Shamatha doesn't mean enlightenment. Therefore telling the future is no indication or evidence of enlightenment. As a matter of fact, out of the 6 supernatural powers, Hindus and other religions have many practitioners throughout history that have mastery of Shamatha and have mastered the first 5 supernatural powers. Only the 6th concerns enlightenment and Buddhahood and therefore is peculiar to Buddhism.
Non Dual (aka no subject object duality, aka Thusness Stage 4) is not enough for non local (aka supernatural) experiences unless one also masters shamatha. That requires very deep realisation of Anatta and Emptiness, leading to non-local experience and insight-absorption.
p.s. just added a line to the previous post:
Oh yes of course.. Awareness is ever-present but realization must arise. But it is not somewhere out there in the future to work 'towards' (that 'over there' is an illusion and leads to looking at the wrong direction), just look at Who am I?
dun think ghosts can see the future accurately... we have many problems with all those mediums and spirit guides, even gods can't see the future accurately... i am talking about accurately here...
i dun think that seeing the future in under one of the 5 clairvoyances categories... pls check, thanks!
whatever beings can see the future, one thing i'm sure, with realisation, comes this ability... among others.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:dun think ghosts can see the future accurately... we have many problems with all those mediums and spirit guides, even gods can't see the future accurately... i am talking about accurately here...
i dun think that seeing the future in under one of the 5 clairvoyances categories... pls check, thanks!
whatever beings can see the future, one thing i'm sure, with realisation, comes this ability... among others.
Ven Chin Kung said ghosts can see accurately into the future for a few weeks, after that it is not accurate.
I reckon those who master Shamatha can see much longer than a few weeks.
Of course cannot compare with Buddha.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:dun think ghosts can see the future accurately... we have many problems with all those mediums and spirit guides, even gods can't see the future accurately... i am talking about accurately here...
i dun think that seeing the future in under one of the 5 clairvoyances categories... pls check, thanks!
whatever beings can see the future, one thing i'm sure, with realisation, comes this ability... among others.
I dunnu if it is mentioned in Buddhist sutras, but it is mentioned in Hindu sutras:
Excerpt
http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw28/bk029.html
We Buddhists give most of our attention to the practice of
concentration
and meditation on voidness, through this, all the sorrows and
the root
of sorrow, which is the inner self, the eighth consciousness,
may be overcome
and transformed into Buddha's wisdom. We are not desirous of
getting supernatural
powers that will make the inner self strong enough to fight with
others.
When the farmer works diligently in the field and it is time for
harvest,
the chaff is gotten along with the rice; so we practice
according to tantric
instructions for full Enlightenment in this lifetime and when we
become
accomplished, supernatural powers are also attained
simultaneously. But
to the Western scholars or researchers, supernatural power is an
interesting
subject. They read books on Tantric Hinduism which describe many
wonderful
things and think that the Hindus certainly have no less power
than the
Tantric Buddhists. In order to correct this misunderstanding, I
am writing
this chapter.
The main difference in this regard is this--the Tantric Hindus and other non-Buddhists have five supernatural powers: divyacaksus (instantaneous view of anything anywhere), divyasrotra (ability to hear any sound anywhere), paracittajnana (ability to know the thoughts of all other minds), purvanivasanusmrtijnana (knowledge of all former existences of oneself and others), and rddhi-saksatkriya (the power to be anywhere or do anything at will). But only the Buddhist has the final one, Anasrava, which accompanies all the others. With Anasrava, the above mentioned powers become limitless and greater in power. The reason for the Buddhist superiority is this: the Buddhist Tantric practitioner spends much time and energy avoiding his own sorrows whether gross or subtle. The root of sorrow is ignorance and the root of ignorance is the inner self. The Tantric Hindu, holding tightly to the higher self, limits his wisdom and power while the Buddhist, being free of even this, attains unlimited wisdom and power.
Enough of theory. Let us look at some actual comparisons. We can begin with the scriptures.
A. In Hinduism, in the book Mysterious Kundalini by Vasant G. Rele, on page 68, eight Ashta siddhis are written of:
1) "Anima--A yogi concentrating, meditating and fixing his attention on this quality of the soul during forced exhalation, draws together his entire energy to a point which is then made to penetrate into all bodies so as to make them vibrate according to the will of the Yogi."
But he cannot again draw his energy from this little point into the voidness nature which is the final truth of Buddhism. He does not believe in that.
2) "Mahima--This is also a special quality of the soul. A yogi by mere inhalation of air makes his body assume a large size and comprehends the universe in himself as was done by Krishna."
This universe spoken of is the worldly one and does not include that of Buddhism, and he cannot enlarge and extend himself from his universe to the voidness nature because of the same reason given in the last Siddhi. It is said in the philosophy of mathematics that infinity and the unlimited decimals are equal to zero, so the voidness can be both infinity and unlimited decimals. The Hindus have no anasrava supernatural power and they cannot reach voidness.
3) "Laghima--He can make his body as light as a feather so that it can float in the air or in water. The yogi's power of traveling thousands of miles in a moment is attributed to this Siddhi."
Even traveling in a moment is limited by time. In Buddhism there are many good examples of this power, one of which was quoted in "Kundalini Yoga" (a Hindu work by Sivananda) as follows: "Once an outsider asked Milarepa for a contest to see which of them could arrive at the top of the snow hill first. This outsider is riding on a magic drum and begins to fly up the hill the next morning while Milarepa was still sleeping. When his disciple saw the outsider halfway up the hill, he called for Milarepa to get up but Milarepa continued to sleep. The outsider had almost arrived at the top of the hill. By only one thought Milarepa arrived at the top. The outsider lost all his supernatural power and fell down." Here Milarepa, though quoted by a Hindu worker, is well-known even to Westerners as the Great Tibetan Yogi. To a great yogi accomplished in the voidness meditation, there is no limitation in space and time, but to a Hindu there is the limitation of Brahma or the high self which I have mentioned in practically every chapter.
4) "Garima--A yogi increases specific gravity of the body thus making it as heavy as a mountain by swallowing large draughts of air and compressing them in the tissues of the body."
The quantities of air swallowed cannot compare with that of the Tantric Buddhist.
5) "Prapti--When in Samadhi the yogi acquires the power of predicting future events, of understanding unknown languages, of curing disease and of divining the unexpressed thoughts of others."
The time of the future is limited by the kapla of Brahma's creation and destruction, but a Buddhist is free from it.
6) "Prakamya--It is the containing of more than one's expectations and the power of casting off the old skin and maintaining a youthful appearance for an unusually long period of time. This is recorded as being true in the case of yogi King Yayati and Aleiluades who maintained unfading youth to the last day of their lives."
Here we read that he has a last day, but there are great Buddhist yogis such as the lotus-born Padmasambhava who are still alive. Not only he but many, many others such as Saraha, Harvarapa, Biwapa, and females Such as Nukuma, Yishitoga, Sukarsiddhi who have attained non-death Enlightenment.
7) "Vasitva--It is the power of taming living creatures and bringing them under control."
This occurs in Tantric Buddhism also. Even in Ch'an there are disciples who were tigers. In Christianity Saint Francis tamed a fox who had killed many people.
8) Ishitva--Obtaining universal dominion either in this life or in the next by means of yoga."
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Regarding this part, maybe you need to do some explanation, how is it that concentration can lead to the dissolving of 'object-subject'... it is very suspicious and feels more like one of the worldly meditative states... i think the object-subject dissolution or nonduality is used too loosely and leaves out the possibility of subtle fixation.
Samadhi can lead to a state where duality dissolves. In fact samadhi precisely means subject and object merge or dissolve.
But it is not a realisation of non-duality, it is just a state where you become one with the chanting, or the object of meditation. There is no inner or outer, subject and object. But it is just a temporary state. It is due to concentration only, no insight.
Realisation of reality as never been divided into subject and object is a different thing: it is a realisation, not a stage of experience.
Through maturation of realisation one can be perpetually in absorption, but not through concentration that forces subject and object to merge, but by insight that sees that there is no subject-object division to begin with. It is 'clarity till the point of absorption'.
As Thusness wrote before,
Division of subject and object is merely an assumption.
Thus someone giving up and something to be given up is an illusion.
When self becomes more and more transparent,
Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.
In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.
Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!
I realised that the topic has gone far off topic.
let's create new threads if we want to discuss something unrelated.
| (9:28 PM) Thusness: | for calmness and peace, focus ur understanding on concentration, dis-passion and letting go. |
|---|---|
| (9:28 PM) Thusness: | take out the rest |
| (9:29 PM) Thusness: | and don't do too much idle talk |