Certainty of Being
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I see... thanks for pointing out... yeah I feel that authentication is quite pointless but yet there is this urge to write and share. haha
I guess the 'traces' remain... and yet when there is self contraction or clinging, when it is seen then the illusion is dropped... always already, there is only this sensation, thought, feeling, arising after another... even thoughts, sensations of bodily contraction, or whatsoever... is only pure sensation arising without an agent.
The practice is thus to open unreservedly to whatever arises... and seeing that 'in the seen, just the seen, in the sensed, just the sensed, in the thought, just thought'... and also not clinging to whatever manifests, letting them dissolve and be traceless.
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Presence is empty. Not formless... I mean, it cannot be located, it cannot be found, it cannot be pinned down.... there is no 'The Presence'!
Though this has been said so many times... somehow I overlooked its significance... somehow, unknowingly, a subtle seeking for Presence is occuring... why? Due to the idea that there is a 'Presence' here, somewhere... be it 'Hereness', 'Nowness', etc... somehow it is there, and I must return to 'It'. And this becomes a subtle object of seeking.... seeking for something that is by nature empty, cannot be found. Even though it is often said, what you already are cannot be found by searching.... due to the tendency to see something inherent, a Self, a Hereness, a Nowness, an Awareness... a subtle searching is always going on. A subtle seeking... clinging... looking for something that is thought to be there...
Yet... now it is seen, there is no source... no 'Awareness'.... yet awareness is utterly present.... AS mirage, apparitional appearances. Utterly present, vivid, yet utterly unlocatable. Let go of all grasping for Presence... for a Source... for anything at all! It cannot be found....
And in this dropping of the subtle contrived effort and seeking, every appearance is spontaneously accomplished, perfected, present and empty. Just the appearance alone is.... no core, essence, source, awareness, etc etc.. (nothing findable and locatable and inherent)
And the subtle efforting and seeking is replaced by spontaneity, naturalness, interdependent origination...
So now it becomes clearer, what Padmasambhava said:
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/self-liberation-through-seeing-with.html
As for this sparkling awareness, which is called "mind,"
Even though one says that it exists, it does not actually exist.
(On the other hand) as a source, it is the origin of the diversity of all the bliss of Nirvana and all of the sorrow of Samsara.And the third karmapa said:
http://www.rinpoche.com/vow.html
It is not existent - even the Victorious Ones do not see it.
It is not nonexistent - it is the basis of all samsara and nirvana.
This is not a contradiction, but the middle path of unity.
May the ultimate nature of phenomena, limitless mind beyond extremes, be realised. -
Wrote a comment in one of my blog posts:
A Presence, Self, Awareness cannot be found. Its unfindability is its emptiness. Due to interdependent origination, apparitions appear, like an illusion but not an illusion. All appearances are spontaneously perfected from the beginning as the spontaneous presence (effortless/natural manifestation) of intrinsic awareness, self-luminous and empty.
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Sitting quietly, doing nothing, spring comes and the grass grows by itself
This quote just keeps ringing in my mind. This is just the way things are. Effortlessly, naturally, spontaneously manifesting.
Now all efforts to do something, like 'be aware', 'be here now', that is just seen to be some silly unnecessary acts, also spontaneously arising on its own...
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Second Preface & Synopsis
(First written on 3rd February 2011, updated subsequently when necessary)
It's been almost a year since my first journal entry, or my initial/first glimpse into awareness, or the true nature of existence.
Here's a quick summary of this e-book/e-journal. This e-book contains a journal of my insight and experiences, coupled with conversations, advice/instructions by me on certain practices like self-inquiry, and so on. And if you go through the posts in my journal, you’ll see that there is an undeniable unfolding of insight going on.
Firstly, about one year ago, through contemplating the question 'Before birth, Who am I?' for almost two years with a deep desire to resolve the matter of the truth of my Being, there suddenly arose the insight into the essence of existence, being, presence. This is a direct insight into something undeniable and unavoidable. For the first time I realized what presence, luminosity, awareness actually is, directly and non-conceptually without intermediary. And I realize that to be my very essence, in which there is no division between 'me' and 'it' - I am That, the self-knowing presence. It is so clear and undoubtable that there arose a certainty of Being, something more undeniable and intimate than the breath, and if anything it is the only 'thing' that cannot be denied.
At this phase, the construct of duality and the construct of inherency still remains strong. As such, I see 1) an inherent awareness 2) awareness is the ultimate observer of objects, and I am that all-pervading awareness, I am not the objects - the objects are objects happening to/in awareness, and awareness is like a vast container for them to arise and subside.
This phase continued for the next six months where I deepened the insight and experience of I AMness in terms of the insight and experience of impersonality, where everything is seen to be the spontaneous manifestation and doings of an impersonal source. It feels like I am being lived by a higher power. Due to the experience of impersonality, there is the impression that consciousness is universal and everyone comes from the same source. There is also the refining of that insight and experience in terms of the intensity of luminosity, seeing through and dissolving the need to abide, and effortlessness. So these four aspects are the 'refining factors of the realization of I AM' and is what eventually led to further non-dual insights. That said, in the I AM realization phase, due to the lack of insights, I was skewed into trying to abide more and more as the I AM and trying to make this abidance constant.
In August, while dancing and just immersing myself into the movement, the music, and sensuousness of everything, I experienced non-duality very intensely and effortlessly as the sense of self just dropped off. Although I have had non-dual glimpses (lasting only a few moments usually), this was different as it became very effortless and constant. Everything was very intense, blissful, and luminously present - and it was not because of alcohol or mind-altering drugs ... the subsidance of the sense of dualistic construct is very blissful, and this bliss and clarity did not just stop - it became a perpetual experience in daily life. Now, Awareness is seen to be seamless by nature. I no longer see and experience Presence and Awareness as a formless background to everything. In fact, it is seen that there is no division between the observer and the observed - I am the seeing, the hearing, the smelling, the tasting, the touching, everything arising moment to moment, there is no separate self or experiencer, there is only that - and that is non-dual presence. However, the construct of an inherent awareness is still strong, and as such, I see 1) an inherent awareness 2) awareness is not divided with all manifestations. In other words, I see everything as the manifestation of the same aliveness/awareness, and Awareness is seen as a seamless undivided field of being in which everything is equally an expression of, and not other than, this field of aliveness/awareness/consciousness. As such, the purpose of practice is no longer geared towards achieving a constant, 24/7 abidance in the purest state of Presence, the Self. Rather, seamless and effortlessness is discovered to be totally non-dual and seamless with/AS all manifestations, rather than abiding in a purest formless Presence. At this point, I keep questioning myself, "Where does awareness end and manifestation begin?" and the answer to this is a non-conceptual, borderless, centreless, seamless field of undivided presence in which everything is included AS non-dual presence.
In October upon the contemplation of Bahiya Sutta while I was marching (was enlisted last year for a mandatory two year military service), I realized Anatta. The contemplation of 'in the seeing just the seen, in the hearing just the heard' as Buddha instructed Bahiya triggered that realization. As such, I no longer see an agent that perceives, i.e. an Awareness. I realized that there is no agent that perceives at all, no subject to be found. In seeing, there is only just the seen, the scenery - the seeing IS the seen, the seeing IS the scenery. There is just scenery - and that alone is the seeing. There is no seer, no agent, no perceiver behind perception. Only always just perception without perceiver. Everything is just happening. There is no "seamless field of aliveness" because aliveness is simply these everchanging and ungraspable sensations arising and subsiding each moment. Just thoughts, sensations, sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, that's all. Phenomena manifesting. The entire process itself rolls and knows, there is no knower. There is no Awareness that is one with its perceptions. There is just perception, the perception itself is its knowing. Because there is always only arising phenomena, there is no such thing as 'unicity'. There is no awareness to be united with objects, no mirror that is one with its reflections. There is no subject to begin with that could be inseparable with its objects. There is always only phenomena.
Few months later, I began to notice this subtle remaining tendency to cling to a Here and Now. Somehow, I still want to return to a Here, a Now, which I found to be a subtle illusory yet hypnotic conceptual image that represents 'Presence'. In reality, Presence is empty and non-local. It cannot be located, it cannot be found, it cannot be pinned pointed even as 'here' or 'now'. It cannot be grasped in any way, because there is no core or essence to Awareness. There is always only dependently originated appearances, that alone is Presence, and that is unlocatable, ungraspable, unfindable in any way whatsoever. Therefore we must not only dissolve the construct of "Who", even the more subtle construct of a "Where" and "When" must be dissolved for true liberation. When this is seen, the subtle tendency to seek an inherent source/awareness/presence is then allowed to be dropped, and in place of that seeking tendency is the effortless and natural spontaneous manifestation of interdepedent origination.
Soon afterwards, there is the realization that what there is, is unsupported, disjoint thoughts and phenomena... There is only the ungraspable experiencing of everything, which is bubble like. Everything just pops in and out. It's like a stream... cannot be grasped or pinned down... like a dream, yet totally vivid. Cannot be located as here or there.
Prior to this insight, there isn't the insight into phenomena as being 'scattered' without a linking basis (well there already was but it needs refinement)... the moment you say there is a Mind, an Awareness, a Presence that is constant throughout all experiences, that pervades and arise as all appearances, you have failed to see the 'no-linking', 'disjointed', 'unsupported' nature of manifestation.
The luminosity and the emptiness are inseparable. They are both essential aspects of our experiential reality and must be seen in its seamlessness and unity. Realizing this, there is just disjoint thoughts and phenomena arising without support and liberating on its own accord. There is nothing solid acting as the basis of these experiences and linking them... there is just spontaneous and unsupported manifestations and self liberating experiences.
Therefore, this ‘disjoint, unsupported, bubble-like, non-solid, spontaneous, self-releasing’ nature of activities is revealed as a further progression from the initial insight into Anatta which is still skewed towards non-dual luminosity and being grounded in the ‘Here/Now’.
So... that's the story so far anyway. I claim no finality, and in fact, am pretty sure more insights are going to unfold in time to come. And since I see reality as a process, I do not make neo-Advaitic claims like 'oh the time bound story is just relative stuff and actually all there is is Here/Now' - there is no inherently existing 'Here/Now' at all, there is just phenomena rolling on its own accord and telling its story but without a self at the center claiming ownership of the process (and yet using personal pronouns is unavoidable for convenient communication - I don't want to sound like a weirdo for using impersonal pronouns) And yet since reality/phenomena is as ungraspable as lightning strikes, no phenomena including enlightenment could be captured or clung to. So I always refer back to what Zen Master Dogen wrote:
To study the Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless enlightenment goes on forever and ever.
Also, even though I presented my journal as if there is a kind of linear progression going on, in truth we should not see these stages/phases as strictly linear or having a hierarchy.For example, some is able to understand the profound wisdom of emptiness from the start but have no direct experience of luminosity, then luminosity becomes a later phase. So does that mean the most pristine experience of "I AM" is now the last stage? On the other hand, some have experienced luminosity but does not understand how he got himself 'lost', as there is no insight to the karmic tendencies/propensities at all, therefore they cannot understand Dependent Origination adequately. But does that mean that one that experience emptiness is higher than one that experience luminosity?
Some people experience non-dual but did not go through the I AM, and then after non-dual the I AM becomes even more precious because it will bring out the luminosity aspect more. Also, when in non-dual, one can still be full of thoughts, therefore the focus then is to experience the thoroughness of being no-thoughts, fully luminous and present... then it is not about non-dual, not about the no object-subject split, it is about the degree of luminosity for these non-dualist. But for some monks that is trapped in luminosity and rest in samadhi, then the focus should be on refining non-dual insight and experience.
So just see the phases as different aspect of insights of our true nature, not necessarily as linear stages or a 'superiority' and 'inferiority' comparison. What one should understand is what is lacking in the form of realization. There is no hierarchy to it, only insights. Then one will be able to see all stages as flat, no higher.And as I told my friend: There is no order of precedence how the phases of insight unfolds for people. Some experience/realize I AM after non-dual, some before. Like Joan Tollifson puts it... rather than a linear stage progression, sometimes it is more like a spiral going back and forth, though that is also just a relative perspective of things. The spiralling continues until one sees with utter conviction that all phenomena shares the same taste, that everything in its primordial purity is Dharmakaya itself.
That said, although there is no strict order of precedence of insight (i.e. not everyone starts with the realization of I AM), of late, I and Thusness realized that it is important to have a first glimpse of our luminous essence (i.e. the I AM realization) directly before proceeding into understanding non-dual, anatta and dependent origination. Some times understanding something (e.g. emptiness/dependent origination) too early will deny oneself from actual realization as it becomes conceptual. Once the conceptual understanding is formed, even qualified masters will find it difficult to lead the practitioner to the actual ‘realization’ as a practitioner mistakes conceptual understanding for realization.
Therefore, if I were to make an advice to ‘beginners’ reading this, my advice would be to start with the practice of self-inquiry (though this is by no means the only method, it is one which is very direct and one which I am familiar with), realize the certainty of Being (the I AMness), then progress from there to investigate the non-dual, anatta, and empty nature of Presence.
Lastly, I see enlightenment as nothing mystical. It is simply the lifting of veils to reveal subtler aspects of reality. Once we lift conceptual thoughts, we discover I AM. Once we lift the bond of duality, we experience and discover non-dual awareness. Once we lift the bond of inherency, we experience and discover the absence of agent and an wonderfully luminous yet empty universe occuring via dependent origination.
May all beings be free and liberated like birds flying in the sky, leaving no tracks. May you become traceless and incomprehensible in this life. -
Wow, the post just came out on its own accord through my hands so quickly ;)
Going to make it part of my e-book preface.
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Everything is utterly empty. What it means? Doesn't mean non-existing. Doesn't mean void. Doesn't mean nothingness.
Means... everything is vividly appearing.. but it cannot be pinned down, cannot be grasped, found, located - you can't say 'here it is', or 'there it is', or that 'this is me', or that 'it is there' - etc...
Like a dream... everything is just like a dream. Vividly and undeniably appearing, and yet what? Is anything real there? Can you say that the dream tiger, the dream self, the dream pain is truly existing or out there? It is just a vivid insubstantial experience, that's all.
"Truth", "Reality", "Mind", "Awareness", "Thoughts", "Experiences" - all are just a dynamic stream of interdependently originated manifestation that is fundamentally empty and non-locatable. Awareness? Seeing? Hearing? All unfindable as something substantially existing somewhere - but its appearance is undeniably manifesting according to dependent origination.
Searching for truth? Sorry to say, there is no 'The Truth'. There is not even 'The Buddha Nature'. You'll find a thousand years to no avail, because you are searching for something that is empty without inherent existence. There is nothing fixed waiting to be found, including 'Truth'! Everything is dynamic. There is not even so much as an atom that is inherently existing! There is not even a Self, an Awareness, a Presence... all these are only labels for the luminous, vivid quality of experience. An inherently existing Presence cannot be found, even though under the spell of dualistic and inherent construct that it may seem to be inherent. Presence, Awareness are simply labels for the utterly undeniable 'beingness' of this moment... which is everything manifesting as it is - sights, sounds, smells, thoughts, etc... Yet vivid as it is, there is nothing there - like a dream, though vivid as it is, it all vanishes moment by moment, and it all vanishes into absolute nothingness in deep sleep.
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Seeing the sights and sounds, the scenery, the people... there is no seeing.
I am the sights, the sounds, the scenery, I am everybody, revealing itself according to dependent origination, doing their things according to their karma.
Yet there is no cosmic consciousness... I am not you, you are not me. We each have unique karmas and experiences. There is nothing inherent.
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Not finding an agent... realizing the absence of an agent or a meditator, I find the innate spontaneous perfection of every moment of manifestation that cannot be improved, modified, altered, sought, or destroyed, by meditation. Why? There is no agent, meditator, that could do a thing to alter or improve the intrinsic luminosity and emptiness of this manifestation.
There is nobody present who could 'become more present', there is nobody present who could 'become', 'be', the inherent perfection of the ungraspable moment. There is only the inherent perfection of the ungraspable moment.
Sitting quietly, doing nothing, spring comes, grass grows. Never was a 'you' there who could do a thing about reality.
Doesn't mean I don't meditate - I do, for the purpose of developing calmness and absorption, samadhi. But this is done without the intention of 'moving towards reality'. Reality already IS, there can be no movement away or towards it (that would imply a duality subject and object which is non-existent).
Try as you may, you can never 'reach' reality - there is no subjective 'you', and no objective 'reality' to be found. Try as you may, you can never escape reality - the inescapable, undeniable beingness of the ungraspable moment. The movement to search or escape reality is also the undeniable beingness of the ungraspable moment like no matter what waves appear on the ocean it can never leave its nature as water - yet temporarily overlooked due to the search (wave seeking for water - how ridiculous).
Just sitting... that is truth. Just walking on the street, is truth. No activity is closer or more distant from truth, because everything is truth.
Simply... drop all desires and effort.
p.s. but all desires and efforts are unavoidable before realization due to the deep rooted construct of duality and inherency! That is why realization is important, and contemplative practices/investigation into the nature of mind is vital. To have a master to give direct introduction into the nature of mind, and a contemplative investigation that brings the dawn of wisdom, is essential.
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Everything is miraculously manifest as vivid presence.
Everything doesn't come from somewhere, doesn't go elsewhere, cannot be even be located somewhere presently - manifest interdependently and thus empty, independent (not the result of antecedent causes and conditions), complete, whole, unconditioned as it is.
Because this moment doesn't change to the next, it cannot be said to be impermanent.
Because this moment doesn't stay even for an instant, it cannot be said to be permanent.
Impermanent without movement, flow without direction, spontaneous and free a yogi lives.
No movement, no process, no development, no transformation, no change, no 'going somewhere'... only the spontaneous perfection and completeness of this moment, and yet instantaneously dissolved upon its manifestation.
Firewood does not turn into ashes, autumn does not turn into spring, sentient beings do not turn into Buddhas. And yet, someday, through engaging in practice, Buddhahood is realized.
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There are two phases to Anatta in my experience which corresponds to the two stanzas of Anatta in Thusness's article On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection.
In the beginning... when I had the sudden realization by contemplating on Bahiya Sutta, there was a very clear realization of 'in the seeing just the seen' - the second stanza of Anatta in Thusness's article... seeing, hearing, is simply the scenery, the sound, it is so clear, vivid, without dualistic separation (of subject and object, perceived and perceived)... there never was, there is only the music playing and revealing itself. The scenery revealing itself...
It is very blissful, the luminosity is very clear and intensely felt. Yet it became a sort of object of attachment... somehow, even though luminosity is no longer seen as a Self or observer, there is still a sense of solidity that luminosity/presence is constantly Here and Now. A subtle tendency to sink back into substantialist non-dualism is still present.
Later on, I came to realize that luminosity, presence itself, is ungraspable without solidity. Much like the first stanza of Anatta in Thusness's article. There is no luminosity inherently existing as the 'here and now'... presence cannot be found, located, grasped! There is nothing solid here. There is no 'here and now' - as Diamond Sutra says, past mind is ungraspable, present mind is ungraspable, future mind is ungraspable. What there is, is unsupported, disjoint thoughts and phenomena... There is only the ungraspable experiencing of everything, which is bubble like. Everything just pops in and out. It's like a stream... cannot be grasped or pinned down... like a dream, yet totally vivid. Cannot be located as here or there.
Prior to this insight, there isn't the insight into phenomena as being 'scattered' without a linking basis (well there already was but it needs refinement)... the moment you say there is a Mind, an Awareness, a Presence that is constant throughout all experiences, that pervades and arise as all appearances, you have failed to see the 'no-linking', 'disjointed', 'unsupported' nature of manifestation.
The luminosity and the emptiness are inseparable. They are both essential aspects of our experiential reality and must be seen in its seamlessness and unity. Realizing this, there is just disjoint thoughts and phenomena arising without support and liberating on its own accord. There is nothing solid acting as the basis of these experiences and linking them... there is just spontaneous and unsupported manifestations and self liberating experiences. Simpo_ described it well recently:
Will like to add that, in my experience, no-self is a more subtle insight than non-duality.
Usually, we see a continuity of mental formation... well... my experience is that it is not always so. The streams of thought seems to be linear but it is not.. To my experience, it is the fast movement of thoughts that give the impression of continuity of self.
Now... thoughts can appear and disappear and they do not have to be linear... 'Simpo' the name pop up and dissapear... another image appears and dissapears... all of them are not self... just appearance, sensations, etc... and we cannot say they arise from a base or sink into the base. There is no base (as far as i see it)... just this ungraspable appearing and dissappearing.
Without this realization, one can never hope to understand this phrase in Diamond Sutra:
Therefore then, Subhuti, the Bodhisattva, the great being, should produce an unsupported thought, i.e. a thought which is nowhere supported, a thought unsupported by sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touchables or mind-objects.
åº”æ— æ‰€ä½�而生其心
This is the phrase that got 6th Ch'an Patriarch Hui-Neng his great enlightenment after the 5th Patriarch explained it to him.
A lot of people think they understood this, yet they are merely disassociating from phenomena and thoughts... this is not what is meant here. What Diamond Sutra described here requires the insight into emptiness... without which all are just contrived practice based on our paradigm of duality and inherency.
It is all just a matter of depth... one phrase... everyone claims to understand it, but do they truly penetrate its depth and essence? Non-enlightened people think they understood it, people at the I AM phase think they understood it, non dual people may think they understood it, etc... we all think we have grasped it, but true understanding comes via penetrating the twofold emptiness.
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Without realizing emptiness, all efforts to let go are still happening in a contrived and dualistic mode and do not lead to liberation. They are a form of disassociation.
That is why what is taught out there are mostly only touching the surface... (teachers telling people to let go, etc)
To go deep into the essence, to go straight into liberation, contemplate and realize emptiness.
Nevertheless, the practice of dropping and letting go is still important for a beginner even though it is contrived and not ultimate.
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'One Mind' is precisely the trace that prevents self-liberation. Self-liberation (spontaneous dissolving without traces) happens in seeing all things as bubble-like, unsupported, insubstantial.
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Just wrote a reply to ur posts and posted in your blog Putting aside Presence, Penetrate Deeply into Two Fold Emptiness.Your expression is clear and well written.
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Originally posted by Thusness:Just wrote a reply to ur posts and posted in your blog Putting aside Presence, Penetrate Deeply into Two Fold Emptiness.Your expression is clear and well written.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
It is all just a matter of depth... one phrase... everyone claims to understand it, but do they truly penetrate its depth and essence? Non-enlightened people think they understood it, people at the I AM phase think they understood it, non dual people may think they understood it, etc... we all think we have grasped it, but true understanding comes via penetrating the twofold emptiness.
so nicely said. thanks! -
Hi AEN,
Quoting Ajahn Maha Boowa
"Keep your awareness with the breath, because in meditating by taking the breath as your preoccupation, you're not after the breath. The breath is simply something for the mind to hold to so that you can reach the real thing, just as when you follow the tracks of an ox: You're not after the tracks of the ox. You follow its tracks because you want to reach the ox. Here you're keeping track of the breath so as to reach the real thing: awareness. " Tracks of the Ox
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... ey_Are.htmNow what about this "awareness"? Is that impermanent too? By this awareness, I mean the awareness of the arising and passing away of the 5 aggregates. This awareness that is always present.
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Yes, there really isn't an entity called 'Awareness' or 'Mind' - these are just labels for the self-luminous quality of experiences. Just like the word 'Weather' doesn't refer to a locatable entity, but the ever changing 'weatherly' patterns of rain, clouds, lightning, wind, etc, manifesting every moment according to dependent origination.
Something I wrote some time ago:
Jack Kornfield has some good books and I have looked through them... but in terms of non dual insight, wasn't too impressed.
Some of the Thai forest masters (and Jack Kornfield follows them quite closely I think, as well as being influenced by Advaita teachers) are also quite dualistic... don't really like to comment too much, but quite a number of the Thai forest tradition teachers have a tendency to cling to the I AM, or reify the non-dual into substantialist non-dualism. There is a monk/moderator in e-sangha who once criticized Thai Forest Tradition for having a tendency to lead towards eternalism, while some other teachers have a tendency to lead towards nihilism. Actually he was quite right but of course came under heavy criticisms from each side of the camp. Of course this doesn't apply to every teacher in the Thai Forest Tradition. But even Ajahn Brahmavamso commented that even high monks (probably referring to his tradition) have a tendency to reify the Poo Roo ('The One Who Knows') as an ultimate self or refuge where in reality even that is a conditional arising without self.
Like I said, quite reluctant to comment too much but will do so anyway... Many Thai teachers stopped at the I AM phase. Ajahn Maha Boowa has gone beyond the I AM phase into non dual and warned of the danger of clinging to the radiant knower, but after going into non dual he still clings to substantialist non dualism. There is a further insight... the insight into Anatta in there is insight into the selflessness and insubstantiality of phenomena including any form of so called super awareness.
'Awareness' is really just the seen, the heard, the skandhas. There is no skandha-transcending awareness which knows things. Like what Bahiya Sutta teaches - in seeing just the seen, in hearing just the heard. 'Awareness' is simply this self-luminous process of experiencing without experiencer. The entire process itself rolls and knows, there is no knower.
In the Theravada tradition, Mahasi Sayadaw seems to be exceptionally clear in view though I don't practice his method.
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Thanks for your reply.
Apparently there is a deeper insight that leads to even greater freedom. Seems our perceptual process itself is at fault.
http://dharmaseed.org/talks/audio_player/210/9547.html
http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/210/?page=2
As for the vippasana method I received a reply like this:
Now we know all 'name and form' (mental and material phenomena ie the five aggregates) are impermanent. Hence awareness is also impermanenet. However we can only sense this (when we are awake) in deep vipassana. Otherwise, like those old film reels which have a series of still pictures, when spun really fast, we get a sense of continuity. Vipassana slows down this process so that we can sense the individual picture/film segment (does it have a technical term??
). So reality is really a series of sense impressions very rapidly arising and passing away one after the next -which forms an illusion of continuity.
The most difficult one to see is the impermanent nature of consciousness itself. Often the self and even a sense of sukha -that it is pure etc can hide in it.I am no where near this level of experience yet.
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I've just read this section recently from a book 'The Thirty-Seven Practices of Bodhisattvas', composed by Bodhisattva Togmay Zangpo and translated into english by Ruth Sonam, with commentary by Bhikshuni Thubten Chodron. Its a small section from the introduction, pp. 13-18, which i find very useful in relation to discovering and asking who 'i' and 'me' am, like to share with all:
although abit long, I hope all who read it find it useful :) _/|\_
The unsatisfactory nature of the mind and our existence
We have a body and a confused mind that are unsatisfactory in nature. That's the meaning of dukkha. Sometimes we translate dukkha as suffering, but it really means unsatisfactory in nature.
Although our body does bring us some pleasure, the situation of having a body under the influence of ignorance and karma is unsatisfactory. Why? Because there is no lasting or secure happiness or peace, Similarly, an ignorant mind is unsatisfactory in nature.
Our mind has the Buddha nature, but right now that Buddha nature is obscured and our mind is confused by ignorance, attachment, anger and other disturbing emotions and distorted views. For example, we try to think clearly and we fall asleep. We get confused when we try to make decisions; we aren't clear what criteria to use to make wise choices. We're not clear regarding what are constructive actions and what are destruction actions. We sit down to meditate and our mind bounces all over the place. We can't take 2 or 3 breaths without the mind getting distracted or drowsy. What is our mind distracted by? By-and-large, we're running after objects that we're attached to. Or, we planned thow to destroy or get away from things we don't like. We sit to meditate and plan the future instead - where we'll go on holiday, what movie we want to watch with our friend. Or, we are distracted by the past and rerunning events from our life again and again. Sometimes we try to re-write our own history and sometimes we just get stuck in the past and feel hopeless or resentful. None of this makes us happy, does it?
Do we want to be born again and again, under the influence of ignorance, afflictions and karma which make us take a body and mind which are unsatisfactory in nature? Or, do we want to see if there is a way to free ourselves from this situation so that we can find a type of existence where we aren't attached to a body and mind like these that are under the influence of afflictions and karma? Is it possible to have a pure body and pure mind that are free of ignorance, mental afflictions and the karma that causes rebirth? If so, what is that state and how can we attain it?
Spend some time thinking about this. Look at your current situation and ask yourself whether you want this to continue. If you don't want it to continue, is it possible to change? And, if it's possible to change, how do you do it?
Although we havent' used this term above, this is the topic of the Buddha's first teaching - the Four Noble Truths.
(I recommend the following to understand in relation to "I")
The ignorance: the root of all suffering
'Having realised the situation of cyclic existence is unsatisfactory, we seek its causes. These are ignorance, mental afflictions and the karma they produce. Ignorance is the mental factor that misunderstands how things exist. It's not simply obscuration about the ultimate nature; rather it's the ignorance which actively misapprehends the ultimate mode of existence. Whereas things exist dependently, ignorance grasps them as having their own inherent essence. Ignorance holds persons and phenomena to exist from their own side, by their own power, with their own essence. Due to beginningless latencies of ignorance, persons and phenomena appear inherently existent to us, and then ignorance actively grasps what appears as true.
In relation to ourselves what we all "I", there appears to be a very solid and real person, self, or "I" there. That view grasping a solid, inherently real "I" is a type of ignorance. While such a truly existent "I" does not exist at all, ignorance grasps it as existent.
Does that mean there is no "I"? No. There is an "I" that exists. It exists merely being labelled in dependence upon the body and mind. But ignorance doesn't understand that this "I" is just a dependently existent thing and instead constructs this big Me is the centre of our universe and we do everything to give it what it desires, protect it, and take care of it. The fears that something bad will happen to Me fill our mind, and cravings for what will give Me pleasure blind us.
The way we think we exist, or who the "I" is, is total hallucination. We think and feel there's this big Me there. "I want to be happy. I am the centre of the universe. I, I, I". But what is this "I" or self that we predicate everything on? Does it exist the way it appears to us? When we start to investigate and scratch the surface, we see it doesn't. A real Self or Soul appears to exist, but when we search for what exactly it is, instead of becoming clear, it becomes more nebulous. FInally, when we have searched for this seemingly solid "I" everywhere in our body and mind and even as something separate from our body and mind, we can't find it anywhere. The only conclusion at that point, is to acknowledge it doesn't exist.
We have to be careful here. The inherently existent "I" that we grasp as existent does not exist but the conventional "I" does. The "I" that exists nominally, by being merely designated in dependence upon the body and mind - the conventional and relative "I" - does exist. It appears and it functions, but it is not an independent entity that stands on its own under its own power.
By seeing that there is no inherent existence in either persons or phenomena, and by repeated familiarisation with this understanding, we eliminate the ignorance that grasps at inherent existence. When we generate the wisdom that understands reality, the ignorance that sees the opposite of reality automatically is overpowered, because that ignorance apprehends a hallucination. When we understand things as they are, then the minds that misapprehend them get left by the wayside.
In this way ignorance is eliminated from the root so that it can never reappear. When ignorance is ceased, the mental afflictions which are born from it also are cut off, just as the branches of a tree are cut down when the tree is uprooted. In this way, the karma produced by the afflictions ceases to be generated and as a result, the dukkha of samsara stops. In brief, cutting off ignorance extinguises afflictions. That stops the creation and ripening of karma that bring rebirth in cyclic existence. When rebirth ceases, dukkha does as well. Therefore, the wisdom of realising emptiness is the true path that leads us out of dukkha.
To generate the energy to practise the path that leads to nirvana, we must first be acutely aware of the unsatisfactoriness of cyclic existence. Here it becomes obvious that the Buddha did not talk about suffering so that we would become depressed. Feeling depressed is useless. The reasons for thinking about our situation and its causes is so we will do something constructive to free ourselves from it. It's very important to think about and understand this. If we're not aware of what it means to be under the influence of afflictions and karma, if we don't understand the ramifications of having a body and mind that are based on ignorance and afflictions, then we will simple be blase and do nothing to improve out situation. The tragedy of such indifference and unknowing is that suffering does not stop at death. Cyclic existence continues with our future lives. So this is very serious and we need to pay attention to what the Buddha said so that we don't find ourselves in a really horrible rebirth next life, a life which there's no opportunity to learn n practise the Dharma.
If we ignore the fact that we're in samsara and immerse ourselves in trying to be happy in this life by receiving money and possessions, praise and approval; good reputation n sense pleasure by avoiding their opposites, what will happen when we die? We'll be reborn. And after that we'll take another life and another and another, all under the control of ignorance, afflictions, and karma. We've been doing this since beginningless time. That's why it is said we've done everything and been everything in cyclic existence. We've been born in the realms of highest pleasure and realms of great torment and everything in between. We've done this countless times, but for what purpose? Where has it gotten us? Do we want to continue living like this endlessly in the future?
When we see the reality about samsara, something inside us shakes, and we become afraid. This is wisdom fear. It is not panicked, freaked-out fear. It's a wisdom fear because it sees clearly what our situation is. In addition, this wisdom knows there is an alternative to the continue misery of samsara. We want genuine happiness, peace that won't disappear with changing conditions. This wisdom fear isn't looking to just put a band-aid on our dukkha and make our body and mind comfortable again so that we can continue ignoring the situation. This wisdom fear says "Unless I do something really serious, I'm never actually going to be completely satisfied and content. I will never make the best use of my human potential, or be genuinely happy. I don't want to waste my life, so i'm going to practise the path to cease dukkha and find secure pease, peace that will enable me to work for the benefit of sentient beings without being encumbered by my own limitations.
'The 37 practices of Bodhisattvas' published for free distribution only by :
Kong Meng San Phor Kark See Monastery
Dharma Propagation Division
Awaken Publishing & Design
88 Bright Hill Road Singapore 574117
_/|\_
The Practices of Bodhisattvas
A Buddha is someone who has completely eliminated all defilements from the mind and developed all good qualities limitlessly. Buddhas are sources of all well-being and happiness because they teach us the Dharma and by practising that, we will eliminate all misery and create the causes for all happiness and peace. To accomplish the final goal of the teachings, we have to know what to practise, and thus this book will explain the practice of bodhisattvas. By doing these bodhisattva practices, we will become bodhisattvas, advance on the bodhisattva path, and eventually become fully enlightened Buddhas.
ebook: http://media.kmspks.org/files/2010/05/37Practices-.pdf
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Thanks :)
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After reading some chapter in David Loy's book 'Nonduality' (highly recommended), here are some of my reflections (not necessarily following everything he said, but my own personal notes of my experience).
All Self/True Self is No Self
'Seer', 'seeing', 'seen', 'hearing', 'awareness', 'Self', these things are not non-existent, but are mere labels for the wordless activity of knowing - the experience of colours and shapes shifting, tree waving, the experience 'chirp chirp'. The seer IS the seeing IS the seen. All these words are only pointing to a single undivided self luminous flow of cognizance that naturally manifests according to dependent origination, with no agent, inherent self, that truly exists. How do we know this? It is simply realized to be so.
Because it is realized that there is no self to contrast with the not-self, observer to contrast with the observed, rather - in the seen is just the seen, in the heard is just the heard, without a seer or hearer - everything is experienced intimately without division. Everything is you, and yet 'you' are a mere label collating the five aggregates. In seeing just the seen - a seen + you doing the seeing is a dualistic inference unsupported by direct experience. There is no you apart from chirp chirp, colours, shapes... just this.
What we experience to be 'intimately me', turns out to be everything experienced as it is without split/division, without a trace of a separate self, agent, or perceiver. And hence, All-Self/True Self is No Self.
Yet to leave a trace of a non-dual True Self is to fall into the error of substantializing what is fundamentally without substance, essence, core - there is just disjoint, unsupported events and process.
There has never been a 'you', an 'experiencer', apart from the events/experiences of your life.
Consider “your” past. The things that “happened to you.”
Did “they” happen to “you”… or is the idea of “you” completely dependent on the events the “you” experienced?
—John Russel
All Time is No Time
You may suppose that time is only passing away, and not understand that time never arrives. Although understanding itself is time, understanding does not depend on its own arrival. People only see time's coming and going, and do not thoroughly understand that the time-being abides in each moment. This being so, when can they penetrate the barrier? Even if people recognized the time-being in each moment, who could give expression to this recognition? Even if they could give expression to this recognition for a long time, who could stop looking for the realization of the original face? According to the ordinary people's view of the time-being, even enlightenment and nirvana as the time-being would merely be aspects of coming and going.
~ Dogen
Not only is there no self, there is no movement in reality. Due to a paradigm of duality and inherency, we perceive the universe as a collection of objects flowing through the course of time, arising at a time, abiding for some time, and subsiding at a later time.
Like John Russel's comment on events and self, the same could be made about events and time:
Consider “your” past. The things that “happened in time.”
Did “they” happen to “time”… or is the idea of “time” completely dependent on the events that happened?
We fail to realize that of course, all there is IS time, and there cannot be 'objects in time' - time has no meaning apart from manifestation. Time IS manifestation, and manifestation IS time, and since all there ever is is manifestation, all there is IS time.
What does this imply? There can never be non-temporal things occurring and passing away in time, because since all there is is time, there can be no non-temporal things. In other words: there is change, yet no changing 'thing'.
Because impermanence is thoroughgoing, total flux, it leaves no room for the slightest sense of an entity or identity, or an unmoved mover, there can be no persisting entity 'me' that is born, say, in 1990, and that passes away in 2050.
This leaves each moment complete and whole as it is - coming from nowhere, leading nowhere. Birth is birth, death is death, there is no one going from birth to death. Firewood is firewood, ash is ash, firewood did not turn into ash. Each phenomenal expression abides as they are without transformation, without persistence, without essence.
Walking from point a to z, there is no entity that has moved from a to z, for point a is simply a, b is b, etc. No entities ever was - all there ever is fresh unseen-before events. Each manifestation is like lightning, momentary, disjoint, unsupported, complete, whole as it is.
Each step you walk on the road is literally is like the bird's flight-path vanishing without a trace: each previous perception vanishes without repercussion, without persistence, simply because all is fundamentally empty without coming and going.
And so, to realize all there is is time, is to realize that there is no time, since time requires entities/objects, persistence and movement, none of which can be found in each moment of manifestation. This is the true permanence of Mahaparinirvana sutra, beyond the notion of something impermanent, and something permanent.
Total Causality is Unconditionality
"Morever, Ananda, according to your understanding of it, the ear-faculty and sounds are the conditions for the coming into being of the ear-consciousness. But does this consciousness come into being from the ear-faculty such that it is restricted by the boundaries of the ear-faculty? Or does it come into being from sounds, such that it is restricted by the boundaries of sound?
"Suppose, Ananda, that it came into being from the ear-faculty. But without the presence of either sound or silence, the ear-faculty would not be aware of anything. If the ear-faculty lacked awareness, because there would no objects for it to be aware of, then what attributes could the consciousness have? You may insist that it is the ears that hear. But without the presence of sound or silence, no hearing can take place. Also, the ear is covered with skin, and the body-faculty is involved with objects of touch. Could the ear-consciousness come into being from that faculty? Since it cannot, what can the ear-consciousness be based on?
"Suppose the ear-consciousness came into being from sounds. If the ear-consciousness owed its existence to sounds, then it would have nothing to do with hearing. But if no hearing is taking place, how would you know where sounds are coming from? Suppose, nevertheless, that the ear-consciousness did arise from sound. Since a sound must be heard if it is to be what we know as a sound, the ear-consciousness would also be heard as a sound. And when it is not heard, it would not exist. Besides, if it is heard, then it would be the same thing as a sound; it would be something that is heard. But what would be able to hear it? And if you had no awareness, you would be as insentient as grass or wood.
"Do not say that sounds, which have no awareness, and the ear-faculty, which is aware, can intermingle to create the ear-consciousness. There can be no such place where these two can mix together, since one is internal and the other is external. Where else then could the ear consciousness come into being?
"Therefore, you should know that the ear-faculty and sounds cannot be the conditions for the coming into being of the ear-consciousness, because none of these three constituents - ear-faculty, sounds, and ear-consciousness, has an independent existence. Fundamentally, they do not come into being from causes and conditions; nor do they come into being on its own.
~ The Surangama Sutra - A New Translation with Excerpts from the Commentary by the Venerable Master Hsuan Hua, page 111
Just like thoroughgoing impermanence denies movement of things (thoroughgoing impermanence leaves no room for nontemporal things moving through time, or unchanging things undergoing change), thoroughgoing/total causality denies there is truly something being the effect and something being the cause (thoroughgoing causality leaves no room for noncausal/independent entities causing something/be caused by something).
Everything being the manifestation of causality, thus lacking an independent core or self sustaining essence, being merely an intangible appearance like a bubble or a mirage, is for the same reason beyond arising, ceasing, cause and effect.
Our experience as it is is unconditioned, without movement, origin, destination, arising, passing, and so on. But once we view our experience through the false view of inherency, we start to see independent/non-causal entities 'interacting' causally in space and time. This is not what Buddha meant by Dependent Origination. The teaching of dependent origination is precisely taught in order to negate the view of an independently existing cause or an independently existing effect of a cause by pointing out their absence of independent, inherent existence. As such, cause and effect cannot be established.
That which, taken as causal or dependent, is the process of being born and passing on, is, taken noncausally and beyond all dependence, declared to be nirv�ṇa.
~ Nagarjuna
This leaves everything as an unconditioned, complete, end in itself, like a mirage spontaneously manifesting and dissolving without an existence behind the appearance, without an origin, without coming from, without going to, yet seamlessly interconnected with all and everything (without the notion of entities interacting/causing each other).
What is imagined to be real with inherent existence, when observed is seen to be merely dependently originated at the relative level with no independent existence, and thus is ultimately being perfect and unconditioned as it is.
This corresponds to the three natures of yogacara or the third turning of the wheel teachings.
This is the true nature of unconditionality, beyond the notion of things being conditioned, or an ultimate Unconditioned substratum.
Conclusion
Not understanding the middle way, we create false views, and make a dichotomy between experience and view due to our framework of duality and inherency. Under such views, we misperceive experience in terms of entities. We fall into the extremes of being and non-being, eternalism and nihilism. We misperceive the unmoving characteristic of experience as an unchanging self, we misperceive the nature of change into a world of objects arising and passing away in 'time'. We misperceive the interdependence of the world into a collection of noncausal objects interacting causally in time and space. We miscontrue the unconditioned nature of experience into an independently existing Absolute.
And yet the wisdom of emptiness points to This... sound, sight, taste, unconditioned, complete as it is, without the duality of Self and non-Self, Observer and Observed, timelessness and time, causality and unconditionality.
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posted a reply to someone in another forum:
Originally Posted By: davlon ^ Cool thanks.. A few questions pop into my mind now, though.. 1) Once "you" have escaped the illusory confines of your "self"...and realize that there are no selves anywhere...shouldn't you then be able to completely disassociate from the localized perspective of "your" body and be free to choose any other vantage point? Like someone or something else entirely? Another "person," a tree, a stone, etc...? Why would you still be liimited to "following" only "lovingheart" or "docresults" around here? Or might that be possible at a higher level of Enlightenment, if not now? 2) I think lovingheart commented on this earlier - but if the self is an illusion - then so is "free will," correct? And so is the LOA as well, right? If so, then is it true that "we" actually have no control over "our" lives??? Everything simply just happens spontaneously?
1) as in the realization of anatta it is realized that there is no agent, self, entity, or a real identity, that seeing is just sight revealing itself by its self luminosity without a seer, hearing is just sound revealing itself by its self luminosity without a hearer, and so on, there is no entity that can possibly disassociate from this particular body mind experience, since disassociation necessarily implies someone disassociating from something. If there is no self at the center, there is no one who can escape the present appearance even if you wanted to. That is all there is. In the absence of a central identity, all there is is unique body-minds interacting with other unique body-minds in a web of interconnectedness. There is no self, agent involved.
Furthermore: in the realization of anatta (thusness stage 5), there is no granduer of a cosmic universal consciousness which we all share or part of. Consciousness is individual (pertaining to unique body-minds) but non dual (without the duality of a subject and object). At this phase not only is consciousness no longer seen to be an ultimate background behind experience, consciousness is understood to be the manifestation of cognizance in six forms: Visual consciousness (cakkhu-viññÄ�na), Auditory consciousness (sotÄ�-viññÄ�na), Nasal consciousness (ghÄ�na-viññÄ�na), Taste consciousness (jihvÄ�-viññÄ�na), Tactile consciousness (kÄ�ya-viññÄ�na), Mind-consciousness (mano-viññÄ�na).
Every felt sense of phenomenal existence, including even the sense of non-dual presence, existence, discovered in a state of non-conceptuality via methods like self-inquiry, and reified into an ultimate noumenal Self, actually fall into these categories. In particular, the I AM realized via self-inquiry is a manifestation of non-conceptual thought (a subset of "mind-consciousness"). However this will not be initially apparent or obvious to such practitioners as their framework of duality and inherency are still deeply conditioning their view of things. As such, once the non-dual, non-conceptual, direct without intermediary, immediate, experience of a thought or a moment of mind-consciousness occurs, owing to their view (of inherency and duality) and way of inquiry ("Who am I?" Already presumes the existence of a true identity), such an experience is immediate clung to and reified into an ultimate identity.
But as further insights reveal, the non-dual, non-conceptual, direct without intermediary, immediate mode of perception (NDNCDIMOP) equally applies to all sensate, cognitive perceptions, and as such a pure conscious, NDNCDIMOP experience of a sound, sight, or indeed even on a conceptual thought eventually reveals all forms of cognition to share the same taste and nothing is more ultimate than anything. There is no ultimate identity transcending manifestation as all manifestation are in a sense equal even though each manifestation is radically different from another in form and in the requisite conditions that gave rise to that form. Having said this however, I must also mention that I would prefer people to start their path (if they choose to follow the Direct Path to realization) with the practice of self-inquiry which results in the direct realization of I AM.
As being explained, consciousness is the manifestation of the six modes of cognition, and as such, there is not even a "One Consciousness" subsuming all phenomena or manifestation. (Thusness Stage 4 and the peak of Advaita attainment) Consciousness is the manifestation itself. There is nothing inherent, independent, permanent about "consciousness", and as the insight into anatta arises, the term "consciousness" is now understood to be a mere label collating the conglomerate of various sensate cognizance arising in its myriad of forms according to the specific requisite conditions of that moment, in the same way that the word "weather" is not referring to a findable, locatable, graspable, independent, unchanging entity, but is a mere label denoting the various ever changing weatherly phenomena arising moment to moment, e.g. Lightning strike, wind blowing, clouds forming and parting, rain, etc etc.
As you can see, consciousness is not universal, not cosmic, but is actually disperse as the multiplicity of manifestation. Consciousness pertains to unique individual body-mind and I cannot therefore claim that I am you or you are me. We are different, unique, individual body-minds interacting with each other in a web of interconnectedness even though no agency or self at the center is involved in acting, controlling, perceiving etc - the perceiving, acting, etc occurs on its own accord, in accordance to the laws of causality.
What is discovered through the realization of anatta is a luminous, delightful, magical fairy-tale like wonderland of ordinary sights and sounds, unsullied by any sense of self/Self, revealing an intimacy, lustre, intensity, aliveness, never appreciated before. Further insight then reveals each perception and thought to be bubble-like, dream-like, disjoint, unsupport, self-releasing (self-liberates upon inception without leaving traces). All that much said, it is true that consciousness is non-local (no where inherently located, manifests according to interdependent origination), as such deeply penetrating into its emptiness and non-locality does result in so called psychic or supernatural powers (Thusness prefers to simply call them non-local activities).
To quote Thusness:
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/05/different-degrees-of-non-duality.html
...Conventionally, to experience non-local aspect of pristine awareness is through concentration. It is the job of concentration. Concentration till one enters into a deep stage of absorption and object-subject becomes one, a state of transcendence. Non-local experiences in such a practice are reached through the power of ‘focus’. So the key towards non-local experiences is absorption and transcendence.
Non-duality on the other hand is a form of realization, a realization that all along there never was a split. Its clarity and level of transcendence come from dissolving the ‘seeds’ that prevents the ‘seeing’. Very seldom we hear people talk about the non-local aspect in the practice of wisdom but non-duality do meet non-locality at the point of transcendence (phase 4). It is some sort of absorption as in the case of concentration but it is more of 'clarity till the point of absorption'. It may sound paradoxical, but this is true. This is the way of wisdom.
There are many layers of consciousness and the truth of non-duality must first sink deep down into the inmost consciousness. It is important to reach the phase of ‘turning point’ as at this phase, the realization of no-self has sunk sufficiently deep into consciousnesses till there is no retreat. Otherwise that joy and experience of no-self will be lost in few months time (This is my experience) and re-surface again until "Emptiness as forms' is deeply experienced. In phase 2-3, non-local experiences may be experienced for some people and mostly with the help of concentration (like asking a question of our past lives) it can be experienced after 6-9 months of practices especially after deeply experiencing ‘Emptiness is Form’. Non-local aspect is triggered at the point of transcendence...
Lastly, in the realization of anatta, it is true that there is no free will, there is no control, but equally true is that there is no determinism. So do not fall into extremes. Intentions and latent tendencies influence our actions which affects our life in every moment so do not overlook anything. Actions continue to be done, fruits continue to be sowed, just that there is no doer nor recipient.
Sorry for the late reply as I haven't been checking up this forum lately.
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Recently had a MSN discussion with two forummers about dharma practice. Conversation took place on 31st March 2011 (Fri),
Here is an edited version of the conversation:
Participant 1: If there is no self, then who and what is restraining the mind, following the virtues (i.e. practicing the dharma)?
Me: That's like asking who or what is hearing, who or what is seeing, who or what is acting. This is actually a falsely put question as never was there a doer, perceiver, or agent in the first place. Seeing, action, all arise according to inter-dependent origination. No agent or source is necessary as such.
Participant 1: Where does volition come from?
Me: Volition does not come from anywhere, just as burning fire does not come from north, south, east, or west. Neither does fire go to north, south, east, west, up, down, or anywhere in-between after blowing out. Rather, it is by the requisite/supporting conditions that fire burns: in this case, by virtue of candle and oil, fire manifests. By the cessation of those conditions, the fire ceases as well. This is the principle of dependent origination:
When there is this, that is.
With the arising of this, that arises.
When this is not, neither is that.
With the cessation of this, that ceases.Everything functions in the way of dependent origination, neither coming from somewhere nor going somewhere.
Participant 1: So, restraining the mind and following the virtues come from the conditions of hearing the dharma and self-discipline?
Me: You can say so.
Participant 1: What about those who hear the dharma, have self-discipline, yet have conditions that prevent them from following Buddhism such as karmic obstruction?
Me: Karma only becomes obstruction if you allow karma to obstruct you. If you are obstructed by karma, it is termed karmic obstruction.
Participant 1: What is the condition that allows their karma to obstruct them from dharma?
Me: Difficult to say as situations differ so you need to provide concrete cases. Just an example: If a person doesn't live near a dharma center, then he reasons to himself that he does not have a karmic affinity with dharma, then that becomes a karmic obstruction. If nonetheless, regardless of distance, that person is earnest, he will be willing to go an extra mile in search of right guidance. This is just an example I made up.
Participant 1: So does it become karmic obstruction or is it because of karmic obstruction (that the person does not come to practice the dharma)?
Me: In this case, it becomes a karmic obstruction, partly due to his personal attitude, intention, decisions.
Participant 1: Ah okay. I found a good link for what I need answered: http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/mahasi-anat/anat03.htm
Me: Good link. Mahasi Sayadaw is likely a fully liberated arahant. That said I don't practice his method of noting, even though it is a very efficient practice (countless practitioners have reported swift progress using that method). In my own opinion, Thusness's method of Vipassana is a little more direct and closer to the method laid out in Mahasatipatthana Sutta, and I personally prefer that method. Noting is sort of noting and labelling sensations quickly in order to perceive it's three characteristics (impermanency, unsatisfactoriness, non-self), however it is not the direct experience of luminous clarity like what Thusness's method result in. At some point (when the noting practitioner progresses to a more advanced phase of his practice), the practitioner will have to drop it's noting and resort to a direct method such as that elucidated by Thusness and Mahasatipatthana Sutta.
Participant 1: What is Thusness's method?
Me: As elucidated in his conversation with Ck/truthz: http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/419870?page=1
Ck: john, how to practise vipassana in daily life?
Thusness: just observe every sensation.
Thusness: until one day u are able to experience "emptiness as form".
Thusness: then it becomes effortless.
Thusness: Truthz u cannot imagine the bliss when one clearly experiences that.
Thusness: but there is no point to over stress anything.
Thusness:
Ck: Thusness just observe every sensation... give me an eg?
Thusness: when u breath, u don't have to care what is the right way of breathing, whether u breath hard or soft, smooth or fine...just experience as much clarity as u can...just that experience...regardless of what it is like.
Thusness: same for all other experiences.
Ck: wot abt sound? hows it?
Thusness: when u hear, just the sound...the totality of the sound. There is no how but just to do away with all abitrary thoughts. Hear the sound as clear as u can be.
Ck: then wot abt thots?
Ck: thots r v sticky
Thusness: thoughts seldom arise if the practice is correct. If it arises, then not to chase after its meaning. Not to answer urself what it means, not to dwell in 'what'...then u will resort to just the moment of awareness.
Ck: when i try to be just openly aware, i notice that i jump from sense to sense
Ck: like one moment hearing, then touch, etc
Thusness: that is okie.
Thusness: our nature is so.
Ck: wots the rite way to do it
Thusness: don't think that u should concentrate.
Thusness: ur only duty is to sense with as much clarity as possible.
Ck: and for all the sensations, i dun dwell in the 'what'?
Thusness: ur mind is looking for a way, a method
Thusness: but what that is needed is only the clarity.
Thusness: however because our mind is so molded and affect by our habitual propensities, it becomes difficult what that is direct and simple.
Thusness: just stop asking 'how', 'what', 'why'.
Thusness: and submerge into the moment.
Thusness: and experience.
Thusness: i prefer u to describe.
Thusness: not to ask how, what, why, when, where and who.
Thusness: only this is necessary.
Ck: ok
Thusness: if u practice immediately, u will understand.
Thusness: if u entertain who, what, where, when and how, u create more propensities and dull ur own luminosity.
Ck: i shuffle btw self inquiry, observing sensations n thots, being aware... its ok rite
Thusness: yes
Ck: means start work i'll hv even more propensities...
Thusness: that is when u do not understand what awareness, but it is true to certain extend.Partipant 1: If we don't note, does that mean we just sit and let everything just be?
Me: And sense the luminous clarity in every vivid arising. You have to be attentive and sort of zoom into the minutest details of every single sensation. Visual sensation, Auditory sensation, Nasal sensation, Taste sensation, Tactile sensation, Mental sensation.
Participant 1: What is luminous clarity exactly?
Me: Pause all thoughts and look at your palm. Don't think of a background, an observer, a self. Just what you see in direct experience. Isn't the shapes, colours, so vivid, so real, so clear? That is luminous clarity.
Participant 1: Hmmm...
Me: Don't 'Hmmm', just the obvious sensate reality shining fully in its immediacy!
Participant 1: I was looking. But it's nothing special. You said it like I can evoke wonder and awe in me just by looking. I was looking at it... then?
Me: It's not special when you look at the world through the 'lens' of an 'I'. There is still this deep clinging to an identity, a sense of self, that which separates 'I' from what I see. That must be dropped. What happens is apperception: you no longer feel like 'I' look at the world through my eyes, 'I' hear the world through my ears. Instead, poetically speaking, it is just sights seeing itself, sound hearing itself, there isn't an 'I' at the center separate from the vivid arising and perceiving them. When this 'I' is seen through and dropped, the vivid, luminous, alive quality of the sensate universe is revealed... when 'I' go into abeyance, it is as if everything 'stands out' bursting forth in brilliant aliveness, total intimacy and absence of separation.
Participant 1: But how do I practice this "technique"? To be able to sense luminous clarity, you have to remove the concept of a self through direct experience, but you speak as if I could do it now.
Me: There are two ways you can give rise to the insight of Anatta. One is like what Thusness said to Truthz: this is one type of gradual path. In that practice you basically have to pay attention to every felt sensation, feeling, perception, until apperception arises (where it is no longer 'I' seeing, but perception sees itself). A direct way of contemplating Anatta is like Bahiya Sutta style contemplation (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/10/my-commentary-on-bahiya-sutta.html). Or contemplating on Ven Buddhaghosa verses on Anatta (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/05/no-self-no-doer-conditionality.html), or the two stanzas of Anatta by Thusness (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html)
Participant 1: What is the difference between Thusness's method of Vipassana and Mahasi Sayadaw's method of Vipassana? Both involves noting and observing sensations.
Me: No. Thusness's method does not involve noting. Noting is like labeling, noting things that arise. It is like within a cycle, how many sensations you can note, within 1 second, you note 'thinking, sound, taste, bird chirping, anger, gone, heart-beat, sound'... note every single arising as fast as possible, but through the noting you missed the immediate luminosity. Wheareas, Thusness's way is to deeply sense and penetrate into the minutest details of every point of luminous clarity.
Participant 1: So you stop labelling things and just observe?
Me: In Thusness's Vipassana method, yes. Just fully sense the minutest detail of this breath, the sensation of your feet, the cool breeze carressing your skin, the colours and shapes of your room. Everything sort of stands out in a pristine clarity you never noticed before. You might also experience details of the things you are seeing that you have missed out before. It can become very blissful.
Participant 1: What about the more direct ways like contemplation of Bahiya Sutta? In a way, I already know the intellectual "answer". What is there to ponder? Isn't following a train of thought in meditation discouraged?
Me: This is not just about an intellectual agreement. The contemplation is about finding out what 'in seeing just the seen', 'no hearer only hearing', etc actually mean or how it applies to direct experience. You have to experientially deconstruct the perception of an agent, perceiver, by contemplating those verses, then you realize that perception/sensation/sight itself is the seeing - there is no other seer. The seeing/seen happens of itself, all are self-luminous activities happening on their own accord. And there is, in seeing, only the seen, the self-luminous activity. I do not want to overcomplicate this and it appears I have been repeating myself... but you will come to see what this all is in direct experience.
Participant 2 joins in the conversation.
Participant 2: I had an experience once years ago. I didn't do any thing special that day or imbibe any drink that would make me different. I was sitting by the river, and I sensed everything sort of like acutely, and I can identify with the blissful bit. It happened just that once, but I could never get back that same bliss, even at the same spot by the river.
Me: Good. Is there a sense that you are no longer an 'I' here looking out through the eyes at the world out there, but now the scenery sees itself without any distance?
Participant 2: It seems like the sense of self is still there.
Me: What you experienced is the intensity of luminosity, but it has not gotten to the point where the construct and sense of self go into abeyance and apperception takes place - apperception meaning that sensate consciousness becomes aware of itself without being sullied by a sense of an external perceiver. But keep practicing and you will experience NDNCDIMOP (non-dual, non-conceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception) or PCE (pure consciousness experience).
Participant 1: I thought you said that (NDNCDIMOP/PCE) wasn't possible without having realized no-self directly?
Me: Not true. You can have temporary PCEs or NDNCDIMOP through mindfulness practice, or through a spontaneous event (the Actualism 'founder' Richard in fact goes to say that everybody has had such events occur to them in their lives, mostly in childhood, though not all can remember them). However, having a temporary NDNCDIMOP/PCE does not imply arising the insight into Anatta.
For example: You may have an experience of the sense of 'I' going temporarily into abeyance and apperception takes place, which is that mind consciousness, or sensate consciousness becomes aware of itself, and occurs by itself, without a thinker or perceiver.
However the insight of Anatta is different: it is the realization that 'in seeing always just the seen', 'in hearing always just the heard' - always already so! By nature so! Seeing IS the seen. There can be no doubt about this. This is the realization that results in a permanent shift of perception and isn't merely a temporary experience of apperception/NDNCDIMOP/PCE.
Now it should be noted that there are two paths that lead to realization of Anatta. The gradual path may develop and lengthen the NDNCDIMOP/PCE until a point of utter stability, then the realization follows/occurs. Whereas the direct path investigates and arises the insight much earlier, while stability only comes some time after the realization.
As an analogy, the gradual path is like polishing the mirror to reveal the luminosity. While the direct path aims for direct realization straight away.
Participant 2: At which stage will you know that you are freed from samsara?
Me: When you clear all ten fetters (which occurs progressively via the four stages to Arhantship), all clinging ceases. In the Hinayana path, this is their ultimate aim. Whereas for Mahayana practitioners, they aim further than that - nothing short of the omniscience of Buddhahood.
Participant 2: If you have not cleared the 10 fetters, what happens?
Me: If you attain Sotapanna (stream entry) enlightenment, your liberation from birth and death is assured to occur at most in 7 lifetimes. If you attain Sakadagami (once returner) enlightenment, your liberation from birth and death is assured in at most 1 more life. If you attain Anagami (non returner) enlightenment, your liberation is assured at most in 1 more life (if you do become reborn, you will attain birth in the celestial plane of the 4th Jhana pure abode, and attain liberation there - you will no longer return to the human realm). If you attain Arhantship, your birth and death is ended.
In short, as long as you have even the initial realization of Anatta and clears the first 3 fetters, you have attained Stream Entry (Sotapanna), and your Nirvana is assured as you have already entered into the irreversible conveyer belt (precisely the meaning of 'stream entry') into the freedom from the cycle of samsara.
Participant 1: The assurance of a pre-determined Nirvana is so attractive.
Me: It sure is, and I can assure you your effort will be worth every bit.