Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I actually don't believe that enlightenment is for high root people.
In fact according to commentaries, high root people can get enlightened within 7 days, low root people should get enlightened within 7 years. (based on satipatthana sutta)
I consider myself low root. I started learning Buddhism for 5 years or more and only beginning to realise some of the fundamental truths taught by Buddha.
I think Zen school not so suitable for me.
I like to read sutra.
Is there a school which focuses on Sutra recitation.
Chanting is my fav activity too.
...........
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I don't follow any schools anymore... I don't follow anything any more... (though am open to new ideas and good stuff)
But most importantly, just follow your self, i.e. your own experience.
Because I read Lama Rinpoche's pdf file.
He asked us to read sutra to plant wisdom imprints like emptiness.
So in the future easier to get enlightened.
Heart sutra n Badarenjuejing shortest and can plant such imprints.
I wanna recite Golden light sutra for world peace but too long the sutra. Not much time.
Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:
Because I read Lama Rinpoche's pdf file.He asked us to read sutra to plant wisdom imprints like emptiness.
So in the future easier to get enlightened.
Heart sutra n Badarenjuejing shortest and can palnt such imprints.
Yes good. Plant the seeds... but also start contemplating... start discovering. Don't walk into the treasure cave and come out with nothing. Don't read but not take them away (realize them in your life).
Prajnaparamita sutras teaches emptiness and no-self.
Don't just read them... but also contemplate.
See there is no you. There is hearing, experiencing, seeing, thinking. But no you, no thinker, no perceiver.
No being. No self. No others. Just experiences... arising... falling... traceless... gone. Vivid, lumious, clear, but empty.
Sounds arising, vivid, clear, luminous, empty, without self/hearer. Sight/vision arising... vivid, clear, luminous, empty, without self/seer.
Don't just keep thinking about the future... the truth is already shining Right Now... what are you waiting for.
Don't think enlightenment is distant, because I can assure you, it is not. From my experience and the experience of countless others.... even though there is no 'my' or 'others', just experiencing.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes good. Plant the seeds... but also start contemplating... start discovering. Don't walk into the treasure cave and come out with nothing. Don't read but not take them away (realize them in your life).
Prajnaparamita sutras teaches emptiness and no-self.
Don't just read them... but also contemplate.
See there is no you. There is hearing, experiencing, seeing, thinker. But no you, no thinker, no perceiver.
No being. No self. No others. Just experiences... arising... falling... traceless... gone.
comtemplate need teacher to guide.
Like comtemplate impermanance wrongly might become very depressed.
Need guidance from teacher.
Comtemplate on impurities of body also need teacher if not easy to go wrong way.
Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:comtemplate need teacher to guide.
You just need someone who have seen the truth to guide you. Unfortunately, many teachers themselves have not seen the truth.
I am guiding you now, but whether you do as I state... that's up to you.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:You just need someone who have seen the truth to guide you. Unfortunately, many teachers themselves have not seen the truth.
I am guiding you now, but whether you do as I state... that's up to you.
You wanna be my teacher?
Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:
You wanna be my teacher?
Haha... no no, I wouldn't say that.
Just a lamp post... a pointer to the moon....
You have to walk the path, I can't walk for you.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Haha... no no, I wouldn't say that.
Just a lamp post... a pointer to the moon....
You have to walk the path, I can't walk for you.
Of cos. If Buddha can gain enlightemnet for us no need to be monk le.
But my interest in comtemplating emptiness,no self havent arise yet.
Paiseh Paiseh.
Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:
Of cos. If Buddha can gain enlightemnet for us no need to be monk le.But my interest in comtemplating emptiness,no self havent arise yet.
Paiseh Paiseh.
Then continue reading the sutras until genuine interest to understand them arises.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Then continue reading the sutras until genuine interest to understand them arises.
Which is wad I do on weekly basis.
But mindfulness in plain English is a very gd book.
I read it in library.
Recommended for reading.
When I was still 16 around 4 years ago, I asked Thusness, is paying attention to details the same as awareness? For example, is paying attention to what the teacher is saying... the same as awareness? And how do I know if I am 'merely sensing' (like Vipassana) or am I simply focusing?
His reply was 'clarity and luminosity is a measurement', 'the degree of clarity and luminosity will tell you' and '(in the) complete abeyance of self, you will experience luminosity, everything becomes a flow of clarity, it is non-dual, without object and subject, without self'.
And yes, indeed, attention is not the same as luminosity. Attention is simply a mental phenomena... a particular focus on the details and contents of an experience. It is the focusing on a particular phenomena... for example the sound of teacher speaking. Attention works by focusing on a particular phenomena to the exclusion of other phenomena. Attention itself IS a mental phenomenon.
However, attention can be mistaken to be a part of a self... in other words, we may have the notion that attention is being controlled by the self... that there is a self directing attention from one object to another.
But if we look, we see that there is simply that mental phenomenon of attention. In every experience... this is it. Whether or not you are paying attention to me, this is it. There is just this phenomenon arising... be it an 'unfocused' experience or a 'focused' experience... there is only that experience arising without an experiencer or controller.
There is attending, there is focusing (or not-focusing and not-attending)... there is no attender.
There is no 'me' 'attending to' 'object'... just as there is no 'me' 'hearing' 'sound'... there is just THIS experience, whatever it is, be it with attention or not... That phenomenon of attending-object is also part of the flow of experience spontaneously arising without an agent... Attention is not tied to a subject, object of attention is not tied to an external object, there is just a seamless stream of mental and physical activities happening without a self.
Enlightenment is not any particular state of attention or experience, but an insight into the nature of all experiences. And after these insights, it doesn't mean you become very alert every moment in the sense that you attend to all the details and notice what others are telling you and so on. Luminosity and attention are different things... there can be vivid luminosity without engagement in the contents/details of the arising, which requires thought-focus/attention. If I am attending a class, I can definitely still lose focus or tune out totally sometimes (oh and I never was good in concentrating to a speaker, and my primary school teacher used to tell me to go seek medical help for attention deficit disorder though I didn't... lol). The fact remains however that there is just that phenomenon arising without a controller or experiencer.
And that phenomenon... be it an unfocused or focused phenomenon... is a luminous arising. Luminosity does not depend on attention or focus, so do not make it contrived... luminosity is effortless, ever-present, never lost... for luminosity is the essence of ALL arisings... in whatever forms it takes... in the mental phenomenon of attention... or in the engagement of thoughts... or in sounds... or sight... or whatever. In seeing, just shapes and forms... In hearing, just the da-da-da of the keyboard... just appearances alone is the luminosity. Luminosity is the effortless and spontaneous flow of manifestation happening without a director or perceiver. Hearing does not require focused attention, it just happens... seeing does not require focused attention, it just happens… focused-attention does not require or have an attender, it just happens. But whatever IS, IS luminosity.
It does not depend on whether you are paying attention to something particular.. or listening to the contents of what someone else is saying... or whatever ways the mental phenomenon of attention is taking shape. Sounds spontaneously arise without hearer (it does not take effort or focus to hear the airplane - it just happens), sights spontaneously arise without seer (it does not take effort or focus for scenery to be seen - it just happens), thoughts spontaneously arise without thinker (it does not take effort or focus for thoughts to arise - it just happens), that alone is luminosity. Focusing and interpreting what another person is saying, is just one kind of mental phenomenon.
When this is seen, 'efforting' due to grasping onto an agent/controller/perceiver shifts into effortless seeing - and in the seeing there is simply effortless spontaneous manifestation. There is no "me" trying to "do something" to get into a special "state". As Toni Packer used to say,
[An airplane is flying overhead.] The sound of a plane! Both the thought/word plane, and, maybe, a mental image of it are right here - aren't they? There is no one doing any attending. Just the sound, the image! [silence] But you were asking, "Isn't the attention turning toward something?" Is it? Let's look and listen! [silence] Can't discern any turning, can you? There is no need for awareness to turn anywhere. It's here! Everything is here in awareness! When there is a waking up from fantasy, there is no one who does it. Awareness and the sound of a plane are here with no one in the middle trying to "do" them or bring them together. They are here together! The only thing that keeps things (and people) apart is the "me"-circuit with its separative thinking. When that is quiet, divisions do not exist.
All experiences, even the most beautiful NDNCDIMOP (non-dual, non-conceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception) are more experiences that arises and subsides.
Which isn't a problem... In fact I am not suggesting transcendence of experience to reach something that doesn't arise and subside. The notion of an Awareness that doesn't arise and subside has been seen through... now it is seen that Awareness is precisely the arising and subsiding, even though each luminous arising is timeless and without coming and going (sounds confusing but isn't so in direct experience).
I am also not suggesting you to detach from such experiences... let them come, let the bliss and clarity come and go (which they will, it is the nature of all experiences to arise and subside), and 'who' is there to detach from experience anyway? No one! Only experiences without experiencer.
What I am suggesting however... is that grasping on any experiences, even what appears 'ultimate' like the NDNCDIMOP is going to result in suffering. Why? Because the nature of all experiences is that they arise and subside instantaneously. They are ungraspable and empty and as such they are unsatisfactory. The nature of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and non-self marks every single experience/dharma, even those that appears 'ultimate'. But actually there is no 'ultimate experience'.
Ordinary perceptions, ordinary seeing, hearing, smelling, are all marked by these characteristics. Each experience arises without an observer or experiencer or agent, they are simply as they are... scenery sees, noise hears.... and they arise and subside simultaneously leaving no traces. By the way... non-dual is the nature of all experience, it is not that there is a Presence non-dual with arisings... but rather there is only arising, and each arising does not have a separate perceiver and hence each perception as it is is free from duality. Just hearing, seeing, touching, thinking, etc is Truth. Truth is found in the most ordinary experiences and perceptions... to chase after some better experience is to overlook what is present right in front of... well... experience. If we fail to see that This ordinary arising is already the non-dual actuality, then we'll forever chase after some future experience that never exists. Actuality is... just hearing, just seeing, just smelling, just touching, just tasting, just thinking, everything happening as it is is already non-dual, complete, self-luminous, without self, impermanent, ungraspable, empty.
Seeing that everything arises and subsides by nature... we no longer form views of self and world as having any sort of inherency. We no longer perceive a world consisting of things located in fixed places. What we call 'places' are really more perceptions that arise and subside... there is nothing truly 'there'. What we call 'there' is not truly a 'there' but is more arisings that subside as soon as it manifest. Likewise what we call 'self', 'here', anything that implies 'location' and so on are also in actuality nothing inherent - only perceptions arising and subsiding.
Everything thought to be inherent (world, locations, self, body, mind, etc) is upon investigation not a solid 'thing' but simply an Arising... and as an Arising, its cessation follows. Existence/inherency, Non-existence/nihilism does not apply to reality.
As Buddha taught,
Dwelling at Savatthi... Then Ven. Kaccayana Gotta approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.
The entire world as we know it... is not a fixed solid something out there... neither is there a self that is a fixed solid thing in here.
There is really just sensations and perceptions arising and subsiding each moment... its arising is the manifestation of undeniable Presence... its immediate subsidence proves there is no solid substance to anything perceived. There is no world, self, location, etc... but neither can you deny the presenc-ing (and subsidence) of the world.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:All experiences, even the most beautiful NDNCDIMOP (non-dual, non-conceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception) are more experiences that arises and subsides.
Which isn't a problem... In fact I am not suggesting transcendence of experience to reach something that doesn't arise and subside. The notion of an Awareness that doesn't arise and subside has been seen through... now it is seen that Awareness is precisely the arising and subsiding, even though each luminous arising is timeless and without coming and going (sounds confusing but isn't so in direct experience).
I am also not suggesting you to detach from such experiences... let them come, let the bliss and clarity come and go (which they will, it is the nature of all experiences to arise and subside), and 'who' is there to detach from experience anyway? No one! Only experiences without experiencer.
What I am suggesting however... is that grasping on any experiences, even what appears 'ultimate' like the NDNCDIMOP is going to result in suffering. Why? Because the nature of all experiences is that they arise and subside instantaneously. They are ungraspable and empty and as such they are unsatisfactory. The nature of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and non-self marks every single experience/dharma, even those that appears 'ultimate'. But actually there is no 'ultimate experience'.
Ordinary perceptions, ordinary seeing, hearing, smelling, are all marked by these characteristics. Each experience arises without an observer or experiencer or agent, they are simply as they are... scenery sees, noise hears.... and they arise and subside simultaneously leaving no traces. By the way... non-dual is the nature of all experience, it is not that there is a Presence non-dual with arisings... but rather there is only arising, and each arising does not have a separate perceiver and hence each perception as it is is free from duality. Just hearing, seeing, touching, thinking, etc is Truth. Truth is found in the most ordinary experiences and perceptions... to chase after some better experience is to overlook what is present right in front of... well... experience.
Seeing that everything arises and subsides by nature... we no longer form views of self and world as having any sort of inherency. We no longer perceive a world consisting of things located in fixed places. What we call 'places' are really more perceptions that arise and subside... there is nothing truly 'there'. What we call 'there' is not truly a 'there' but is more arisings that subside as soon as it manifest. Likewise what we call 'self', 'here', anything that implies 'location' and so on are also in actuality nothing inherent - only perceptions arising and subsiding.
As Buddha taught,
Dwelling at Savatthi... Then Ven. Kaccayana Gotta approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.
The entire world as we know it... is not a fixed solid something out there... neither is there a self that is a fixed solid thing in here.
There is really just sensations and perceptions arising and subsiding each moment... its arising is the manifestation of undeniable Presence... its immediate subsidence proves there is no solid substance to anything perceived. There is no world, self, location, etc... but neither can you deny the presenc-ing (and subsidence) of the world.
Thanks for the sharing. You realised emptiness ?
Originally posted by simpo_:Thanks for the sharing. You realised emptiness ?
No... can't say so. Just starting to see the arising and subsiding of things more clearly... this breaks the perception of solidity. It's deconstructing what we feel to be solid to be more arisings... as I just updated:
Everything thought to be inherent (world, locations,
self, body, mind, etc) is upon investigation not a solid 'thing' but simply an Arising...
and as an Arising, its cessation follows. Existence/inherency, Non-existence/nihilism does not apply to reality.
However I think Emptiness has to do with interdependent origination... some deeper aspects which is a little beyond me at the moment.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:All experiences, even the most beautiful NDNCDIMOP (non-dual, non-conceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception) are more experiences that arises and subsides.
Which isn't a problem... In fact I am not suggesting transcendence of experience to reach something that doesn't arise and subside. The notion of an Awareness that doesn't arise and subside has been seen through... now it is seen that Awareness is precisely the arising and subsiding, even though each luminous arising is timeless and without coming and going (sounds confusing but isn't so in direct experience).
I am also not suggesting you to detach from such experiences... let them come, let the bliss and clarity come and go (which they will, it is the nature of all experiences to arise and subside), and 'who' is there to detach from experience anyway? No one! Only experiences without experiencer.
What I am suggesting however... is that grasping on any experiences, even what appears 'ultimate' like the NDNCDIMOP is going to result in suffering. Why? Because the nature of all experiences is that they arise and subside instantaneously. They are ungraspable and empty and as such they are unsatisfactory. The nature of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and non-self marks every single experience/dharma, even those that appears 'ultimate'. But actually there is no 'ultimate experience'.
Ordinary perceptions, ordinary seeing, hearing, smelling, are all marked by these characteristics. Each experience arises without an observer or experiencer or agent, they are simply as they are... scenery sees, noise hears.... and they arise and subside simultaneously leaving no traces. By the way... non-dual is the nature of all experience, it is not that there is a Presence non-dual with arisings... but rather there is only arising, and each arising does not have a separate perceiver and hence each perception as it is is free from duality. Just hearing, seeing, touching, thinking, etc is Truth. Truth is found in the most ordinary experiences and perceptions... to chase after some better experience is to overlook what is present right in front of... well... experience. If we fail to see that This ordinary arising is already the non-dual actuality, then we'll forever chase after some future experience that never exists. Actuality is... just hearing, just seeing, just smelling, just touching, just tasting, just thinking, everything happening as it is is already non-dual, complete, self-luminous, without self, impermanent, ungraspable, empty.
Seeing that everything arises and subsides by nature... we no longer form views of self and world as having any sort of inherency. We no longer perceive a world consisting of things located in fixed places. What we call 'places' are really more perceptions that arise and subside... there is nothing truly 'there'. What we call 'there' is not truly a 'there' but is more arisings that subside as soon as it manifest. Likewise what we call 'self', 'here', anything that implies 'location' and so on are also in actuality nothing inherent - only perceptions arising and subsiding.
Everything thought to be inherent (world, locations, self, body, mind, etc) is upon investigation not a solid 'thing' but simply an Arising... and as an Arising, its cessation follows. Existence/inherency, Non-existence/nihilism does not apply to reality.
As Buddha taught,
Dwelling at Savatthi... Then Ven. Kaccayana Gotta approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.
The entire world as we know it... is not a fixed solid something out there... neither is there a self that is a fixed solid thing in here.
There is really just sensations and perceptions arising and subsiding each moment... its arising is the manifestation of undeniable Presence... its immediate subsidence proves there is no solid substance to anything perceived. There is no world, self, location, etc... but neither can you deny the presenc-ing (and subsidence) of the world.
Yes, all PCEs, all NDNCDIMOP, all these will pass (not into some great void).
The article Death, Reincarnation, Nonduality, and other dreams in your blog by Jeff Foster talking about deep dreamless sleep as a form of psuedo death. He is talking about this ‘psuedo death’ that is a direct opposite of the NDNCDIMOP much like an absolute 'no experience' black-hole that even non-dual presence cannot escape. He urges practitioners to see it with an unbiased mind and not be overly attached to non-dual presence.
Yet this 'pseudo death' too will pass.
Similarly if we were to turn micro and practice vipassana, there are body sensations, fluctuation thoughts, beliefs, heart beats, sound, scent...no permanent agent that is owner of these arising and passing phenomena can be found. A ‘permanent unchanging witness’ is just simply 'a thought that claims ownership along this arising and passing stream. :-)
The insight of no-self must not only realize the illusionary division of subject-object duality and turns non-dual experience implicit; it must also allow practitioner to clearly see the stream of ever becoming. When there is no permanent agent,there is just seeing, thinking, hearing; there is simply scenery, thoughts, sounds; there are still fear, emotion, anger…there is action, there is karma…just no self.
What is the implication?
The mind upon seeing anatta must not continue to live in a fantasy land and clearly see the workings of these arising and passing phenomena. There is no escape for there is just this and practitioners are always dealing with attachments, deeper dispositions, latent tendencies, supporting conditions, action, karma.
Can you stop an arising thought from subsiding?
Is the present moment of thought the same as the previous moment of thought?
Can this moment of thought not affect the next moment of thought?
Stabilizing the insight of anatta requires the realization of dependent origination.
With the absence of ‘dualistic and inherent’ tendencies as the supporting conditions, experience turns non-dual and liberating; so do not mistake the ‘effect’ for ‘cause’ and focus too much on PCEs. :-)
I see.. Thanks Thusness!
As you mentioned about D.O... I thought I might also include the entire sutta which I quoted from as I felt it to be quite clear about the topic of 'Right View'.
Dwelling at Savatthi... Then Ven. Kaccayana Gotta approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances), & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases, or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Kaccayana, that there is right view.
"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.
"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."
Originally posted by Thusness:Yes, all PCEs, all NDNCDIMOP, all these will pass (not into some great void).
The article Death, Reincarnation, Nonduality, and other dreams in your blog by Jeff Foster talking about deep dreamless sleep as a form of psuedo death. He is talking about this ‘psuedo death’ that is a direct opposite of the NDNCDIMOP much like an absolute 'no experience' black-hole that even non-dual presence cannot escape. He urges practitioners to see it with an unbiased mind and not be overly attached to non-dual presence.
Yet this 'pseudo death' too will pass.
Similarly if we were to turn micro and practice vipassana, there are body sensations, fluctuation thoughts, beliefs, heart beats, sound, scent...no permanent agent that is owner of these arising and passing phenomena can be found. A ‘permanent unchanging witness’ is just simply 'a thought that claims ownership along this arising and passing stream. :-)
The insight of no-self must not only realize the illusionary division of subject-object duality and turns non-dual experience implicit; it must also allow practitioner to clearly see the stream of ever becoming. When there is no permanent agent,there is just seeing, thinking, hearing; there is simply scenery, thoughts, sounds; there are still fear, emotion, anger…there is action, there is karma…just no self.
What is the implication?
The mind upon seeing anatta must not continue to live in a fantasy land and clearly see the workings of these arising and passing phenomena. There is no escape for there is just this and practitioners are always dealing with attachments, deeper dispositions, latent tendencies, supporting conditions, action, karma.
Can you stop an arising thought from subsiding?
Is the present moment of thought the same as the previous moment of thought?
Can this moment of thought not affect the next moment of thought?
Stabilizing the insight of anatta requires the realization of dependent origination.
With the absence of ‘dualistic and inherent’ tendencies as the supporting conditions, experience turns non-dual and liberating; so do not mistake the ‘effect’ for ‘cause’ and focus too much on PCEs. :-)
Great questions btw... Yes indeed, without a self or agent, there is no escape from karmic tendencies and arisings (no sinking back into a 'great void' to escape from manifestation)... rather it is just seen that karmic tendencies is what affects our every moment of action, thinking, behavior and experiential reality.
I have seen that after all those insights... the tendencies continue in a very similar way. My personality and behavior and habits continue to manifest in a very similar way. Even feelings and emotions continue to manifest in quite a similar way... However perhaps what is different now is that there is not so much of self-referencing... that is what has fallen away because the insight is that there is simply phenomena arising and subsiding, hearing, seeing, thinking (which is really just sound, sights, thoughts, etc) arising and subsiding without a self (that said it doesn't mean self contraction stops arising... but even then they arise it can be seen as simply more sensations and dropped). Other than that... tendencies continue to arise and affect every moment of experience and it takes practice to let go of some of these manifesting tendencies. Experiences, hearing, seeing, thinking, etc... all happen *exactly the same way as before*... just this ordinary experiential reality is truth... only that now, ordinary experiences are no longer seen with delusion - i.e. seen as made out of objects happening 'at a distance out there' to a subject/self... or seen as 'me', 'mine', or happening to an experiencing/controlling agent.
Can I stop an arising thought from arising? No, whatever arises does so due to conditions. There is no thinker or controller or agent behind an arising... an arising arises spontaneously due to interdependent origination... the entire universe interacting and manifesting in this moment of experience.
Can I stop an arising thought from subsiding? No, whatever subsides also does so due to conditions (or the lack thereof). Due to the lack of insight into 'no agent', we may think that there is a thinker or controller that can create or stop a thought... but thought arises and subsides without an agent, thought arises and subsides due to dependent origination.
Can a moment of thought not affect the next moment of thought? A moment of thought doesn't 'touch' or 'cause' another moment of thought... each thought is a complete, whole, unconditioned reality of itself. And yet each thought does inevitably serve as a supporting condition for another manifestation (of thought, action, etc)...
Our entire experiential reality is really only sensations, sights, sounds, and so on... popping in and out according to dependent origination. There is no perceiver or even a thing called 'awareness' apart from these arising and subsiding...
Like watching TV flashing out Buddha Amitabha image, the eyes and the Budda are perfect harmonious peace. However, if there is an anti-glare filter stick on the TV screen, it becomes "dreamy", and the state of dreamy depends on the colour and thickness of that anti-glare filter. In spite of the dreamy state, the pureness of Buddha Amitabha image on the TV and eyes are not tainted a slightest.
Yes... the nature of reality is fully manifested every moment despite ignorance apparently obscuring the experiential seeing of it.
Originally posted by Amitayus48:Like watching TV flashing out Buddha Amitabha image, the eyes and the Budda are perfect harmonious peace. However, if there is an anti-glare filter stick on the TV screen, it becomes "dreamy", and the state of dreamy depends on the colour and thickness of that anti-glare filter. In spite of the dreamy state, the pureness of Buddha Amitabha image on the TV and eyes are not tainted a slightest.
I see it otherwise. :-)
Be it "dreamy" or "pureness" both are appearances, nothing ultimate. The truth of 'empty nature' of appearances however is ultimate. In Buddhism, there is no ultimate reality, only ultimate truth.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes... the nature of reality is fully manifested every moment despite ignorance apparently obscuring the experiential seeing of it.
Your explanation is sound. So u should not say 'yes'. Unless u r mistaking non-dual luminous essence for empty nature. :-)
By the way how do u understand 如梦幻泡影 with ur recent experience and insight of no-self.
Originally posted by Thusness:
Your explanation is sound. So u should not say 'yes'. Unless u r mistaking non-dual luminous essence for empty nature. :-)By the way how do u understand 如梦幻泡影 with ur recent experience and insight of no-self.
We often think that the difference between dream and waking life is that dream consists of insubstantial everchanging images without solidity. And yet, waking life consists of interaction with 'real life objects' that exists inherently and is real.
But insight tells us that there is no such 'real solidity' out there even in waking life... it is really just this flow of arising and subsiding phenomena... there is nothing solid at all. Like a dream, like an illusion, like bubbles, and shadows.... like dewdrops and lightning flash. Only just this arising and subsiding, arising and popping out according to conditions.