Faith in Belief Systems
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reality means something that is real, which is what you are looking for in this forum, right? all the best.Originally posted by laoda99:wat is reality in buddhist terms?
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Let me try to say it again.
REALITY - all beliefs must be checked against REALITY (otherwise you should check into IMH if you live in delusion too much)
REALITY, unfortunately in people's mind there is ULTIMATE REALITY; SUBJECTIVE REALITY; PREFERRED REALITY; UNSEEN REALITY; KNOWN REALITY; UNKNOWN REALITY...
(In reality, there is only a non-dualistic ONE REALITY)
So where do Beliefs and Faith come in?
Think dualistic living.... for the answer! -
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:
might need to involve the law of karma and non-self.
However, there are many kinds of faith:
1) Good Faith
2) Blind Faith
3) Rational Faith
What then is
4) True Faith ??
What then is
5) Right Faith ??
imo, Blind faith also have two kind. either you are the one who follow the law/religion, and treat others with loving kindness and are Obedience and humble kind ....Or those that breaks the law and arrogant kind. normally the latter kind follow the wrong religion blindly.
in pureland school, Obedient and humbleness does has it's part in Non-self/Selflessness in a sense.
Amitabha choose those that are in that humble mentality, instead of those with arrogance.
see also the The Teaching of Great Master Yin Guang :
http://www.amtb.org.tw/e-bud/releases/yinguang.htm
u'll see a touch of non-self in the teaching.
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Because "no-self" is a REALITY (not just a belief) you will see "a touch of non-self" in teaching (correct, right, good teaching) that is based on REALITY.Originally posted by sinweiy:might need to involve the law of karma and non-self.
imo, Blind faith also have two kind. either you are the one who follow the law/religion, and treat others with loving kindness and are Obedience and humble kind ....Or those that breaks the law and arrogant kind. normally the latter kind follow the wrong religion blindly.
in pureland school, Obedient and humbleness does has it's part in Non-self/Selflessness in a sense.
Amitabha choose those that are in that humble mentality, instead of those with arrogance.
see also the The Teaching of Great Master Yin Guang :
http://www.amtb.org.tw/e-bud/releases/yinguang.htm
u'll see a touch of non-self in the teaching.
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For example, in Christianity, they are taught "love thy neighbor" but the "reason" to "love thy neighbor" is based on the "belief" of a god that will punish you if you do not love.
The reason can also be based on reality of "no-self".
If you accept reality, and realize "no-self" and you have compassion because you realise "no-self"; that does not require faith in no-self because you have "realized" discovered the reality of "no-self" in your life.
Before you realize no-self, you might need faith to practice compassion because compassion is a part of the fabric of REALITY but you have not realized it (you have not realize "no-self) but after you realize "no-self" there is no need have faith in "no-self" and practice compassion because no-self and compassion becomes, normal, natural after you realise that it is part of REALITY.
Faith is not required. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
ermm...i think accepting reality in itself is a form of faith.
Because "no-self" is a REALITY (not just a belief) you will see "a touch of non-self" in teaching (correct, right, good teaching) that is based on REALITY.
For example, in Christianity, they are taught "love thy neighbor" but the "reason" to "love thy neighbor" is based on the "belief" of a god that will punish you if you do not love.
The reason can also be based on reality of "no-self".
If you accept reality, and realize "no-self" and you have compassion because you realise "no-self"; that does not require faith in no-self because you have "realized" discovered the reality of "no-self" in your life.
Before you realize no-self, you might need faith to practice compassion because compassion is a part of the fabric of REALITY but you have not realized it (you have not realize "no-self) but after you realize "no-self" there is no need have faith in "no-self" and practice compassion because no-self and compassion becomes, normal, natural after you realise that it is part of REALITY.
Faith is not required.
before a baby learn to walk, it must first try an error by trying to make the first step. that form of trying to walk is a lead of faith.
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Faith is part of reality. If you think faith is outside reality, you are confused and see dualistically.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Let me try to say it again.
REALITY - all beliefs must be checked against REALITY (otherwise you should check into IMH if you live in delusion too much)
REALITY, unfortunately in people's mind there is ULTIMATE REALITY; SUBJECTIVE REALITY; PREFERRED REALITY; UNSEEN REALITY; KNOWN REALITY; UNKNOWN REALITY...
(In reality, there is only a non-dualistic ONE REALITY)
So where do Beliefs and Faith come in?
Think dualistic living.... for the answer!
Of course that does not mean faith must be blind and irrational, as the earlier posts suggested there are many kinds of faith. -
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:The plain meaning of faith is: trust or which can be relied upon. However, there are many kinds of faith:
1) Good Faith
2) Blind Faith
3) Rational Faith
Seems like there is no alternate views on the above three kinds of faith. If these distinctions are acceptable, then one should not just use term 'faith' any-O-how. Better to qualify what kind of faith is the 'faith' you have in a belief.
So, which kind of faith I should choose if I had to hold on to a belief?
What then is
4) True Faith ??
Any definition?
What then is
5) Right Faith ??
There was a mention but I don't see the definition. -
The part in red is not true.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Because "no-self" is a REALITY (not just a belief) you will see "a touch of non-self" in teaching (correct, right, good teaching) that is based on REALITY.
For example, in Christianity, they are taught "love thy neighbor" but the "reason" to "love thy neighbor" is based on the "belief" of a god that will punish you if you do not love.
The reason can also be based on reality of "no-self". -
Are we assuming that only Buddhism have reality while other faiths do not?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Thusness defines reality as such:
A moment is a reality by itself in its entirety.
Each moment is totally new and different and complete, and gone instantaneously. -
No, reality is reality regardless of religious contexts nor beliefs... so whether buddhist or christian or what, reality simply is.Originally posted by laoda99:Are we assuming that only Buddhism have reality while other faiths do not? -
For once, I am not confused.Originally posted by laoda99:The part in red is not true.
The reason why I practise 'love thy neighbour' is based on the belief that I am in love with my neighbour's daughter. -
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:For once, I am not confused.
The reason why I practise 'love thy neighbour' is based on the belief that I am in love with my neighbour's daughter. -
To Laoda99:
No. There is no monopoly over Reality and Truth in Buddhism and the reality that Buddhism talks about is a phenomenological reality. It is what is presented as a conscious experience.
To TheGoodEarth:
I will define it in terms of practicality narrowing it within the context of pragmatism. In pragmatic theory, ‘right’ deals with behaving. So here I will define ‘right faith’ as the correct way of behaving when adopting a particular faith. The commandments defines the right faith in Christianity where as the precepts defines the right faith in Buddhism. The ‘True’ of something in pragmatism refers to the effectiveness of an application in actuality. I will define the ‘true of faith’ as the effectiveness of applying such a faith into actual living. -
Care not to spark a tongue fight unnecessarily and make a fruitful discussion. Just a casual advise.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Because "no-self" is a REALITY (not just a belief) you will see "a touch of non-self" in teaching (correct, right, good teaching) that is based on REALITY.
For example, in Christianity, they are taught "love thy neighbor" but the "reason" to "love thy neighbor" is based on the "belief" of a god that will punish you if you do not love.
The reason can also be based on reality of "no-self".
Then what is the basis for Christian love?Originally posted by laoda99:The part in red is not true. -
Originally posted by sinweiy:ermm...i think accepting reality in itself is a form of faith.
before a baby learn to walk, it must first try an error by trying to make the first step. that form of trying to walk is a lead of faith.
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I don't understand what you are trying to say. -
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Then what is the basis for Christian love? -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
accepting reality = faith in reality. I don't understand what you are trying to say.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
Accepting religion = not having faith in reality?
[b]accepting reality = faith in reality.
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[/b] -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
depend if one equal religion to be reality anot.
Accepting religion = not having faith in reality?
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from the simile of the baby walking.
it had got from "testing faith" (somewhat blind) in taking the first steps to a more mature faith of walking.
why it begin with blind is because there's a possiblity that it might take a fall. but no choice, it need to go thru the mistake before it can walk.
after less and less falls it gain confidence (in reality). even so after it had grow up and are able to walk and run. can we say it has 100% confidence in walking? you may say it has "full" confidence/faith, BUT adults also take a fall sometimes.
can name me something u have "full" confidence where it cannot go wrong?
tis why, in Buddhism, faith is said to be the root of all dharma/reality/nature, be it blind, or wrong or right or true etc.
faith is required. but i am refering to a neutral faith. Utimately, it must turn into Right faith or Confidence.
Yet that Confidence cannot become arrogance as arrogance oppose reality in the reality of cause and effect.
arrogance will not oppose reality unless you live alone by yourself. but we live as a whole. hence there's reality of cause and effect. if you act badly, people around will get affected. as people normally dislike arrogance. if you want to become a bad apple, you'll be outcast by people.
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Easy to say and easy to quote from the holy book. Don't preach, practice!Originally posted by Chin Eng:1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
For me, the reason why I practise 'love thy neighbour' is based on the belief that I am in love with my neighbour's daughter. -
my answer to andrew was based on his question: basis for love in the Christian context. nothing more nothing less. the verse I quoted was the basis for love, not fear of punishment from God as he had first written.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Easy to say and easy to quote from the holy book. Don't preach, practice!
For me, the reason why I practise 'love thy neighbour' is based on the belief that I am in love with my neighbour's daughter.
it also has nothing to do with me insomuch that I've already stated many times that I am not an exemplary Christian, so there!
your england still quite bad hor and you can't seem to follow the flow of the thread hor. -
I think I have said that in another topic " Question about the Source".Originally posted by Chin Eng:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
"God/Source" is too direct to be seen!!! It's nature is love and bliss. In fact, from my experience that may be no distinction between love and bliss.
When it is seen/experienced, "you or self" must completely dissolve/disappear! This is the true meaning of surrendering one's will to God. That is also why in Buddhism there is 'no self'. But the 'Source' abide in all of us... We simply fail to see IT because our self/ego/I has not dissolved or surrendered enough.
Unfortunately, holy teachings have been misused and misinterpretation countless of times and countless of sequence by manipulative and unenlightenment leaders. Don't be a naive and trusting blind-follower!
Please do not believe in the honesty of mankind... however holy they may appear to be. Trust only in Direct Experience!
Seriously, I do not wish to recieve mental arguments... it really does not help at all. It is much much better to re-evaluate one's own understand by honest self-experience and understanding of one's own mental and personality inclinations.
Thank you for reading. -
What is the litmus test of reality?Originally posted by sinweiy:depend if one equal religion to be reality anot.
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