Is it right to be an entry level programmer?
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Let's don't talk about the current economic condtions.
Under normal circumstances, if you are a graduate in Computing or Computer Science, will it be right for you to be employed only as an entry level programmer? Or it is right for you to expect more?
I have an old friend who has his poly diploma, CCNP, Network+ and MCITP, and he is employed as a network administrator in his company. However, when another friend came back recently, he has only his computing degree and a company offered him an entry level programming job.
Is it right to him, as a university graduate to be employed only as an entry level programmer while my other friend who has no university degree but has his diploma and his certifications to be employed in a better position?
Some people may argue that it is like that and you have to work your way up. But surely an entry level programmer is a bit too low for a university grad, isn't it? This is especially if you get the same pay as all other non graduate entry level programmers. And my poly friend is getting a better pay than what my other friend's company offered him.
Or is it better for him not to get his degree at all but just get computer certifications instead?
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No answers?
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Different people with different skills.
Maybe your programmer friend wish to gain more experience in the field that's why choose to accept the job as an entry level programmer. Network administrator is another job that requires a different skills from programmers. An entry level programming job for degree holder may not be too low because programming requires a lot of creativity juice and very strong level of coding and communication skills.
You poly friend was offered a higher pay than your programmer friend it's because he has the skills and knowledge the company needs. He's paid for his expertise, same for your programmer friend.
Ultimately, it doesn't mean a degree holder will and must earn more than a diploma holder. There are many factors that affect the salary including skills and experience, supply and demand, and many market forces.
I would see it this way. As an entry level programmer with a degree, he will be able to benefit the company/team by contributing his valuable advanced programming and coding techniques to his team. Hence, I see this as a accerlerated pathway of promotion if your friend perform well.
P.S. I have a friend who work as a senior receptionist (started out as a junior staff of course), holds only a higher nitec certificate, and earning over $2K+ per month after few years or work. Why? Because she's able to contribute and add value to the company.
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experience counts apart from the basics.
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When it comes to programming and IT knowledge, experience counts more than paper. During my first IT job, I was hired to do website with my diploma. In that company, we have Masters (some Indian foreigners) and Degree (China + Malaysian foreigner). There was a time when someone managed to hack into the database. All the masters and degree guys don't have any idea what's wrong. I checked their source codes and realize they never secure their website portion and by doing a malform request, it can cause the server to give out requested information.
Until today I still remember the Indian masters employee create a production (live) database and called it "testing"... LOL!!!
Really, I don't care if you just "o" level if you can do programming well. I just got a Masters student programmer to do just 1 simple signup form and can't even do it... total screw up sia. So in IT, quality programming work is very expensive and cannot be compared based on paper qualifications. Having 1 world class programmer beats having 10 noob programmers on your payroll.
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From all the answers, this would still mean being employed as an entry level programmer after all your hard work in the university is not really as good as a network administrator with CCNP and MCITP or database administrator with Oracle or even a banking officer with a business degree or an architect with an architectural degree. Experience and skill is more important than your qualifications.
The feeling I get is that it is still better to avoid this job if you can and be someone else. I don't know and I may be wrong but I have asked myself many times, is it all worth it? If I were to use my qualification to apply for a teaching position in MoE, I will still be a school teacher, or a lecturer in one of the universities or polys or ITE.
Sorry but this is how I feel.
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i suppose its like being a shaolin temple kung fu student after 10 years in it, as compared to a karate student with 4 years in the budokan and 5 years in a real life battlefield.
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Originally posted by Hitman Factory 1:
i suppose its like being a shaolin temple kung fu student after 10 years in it, as compared to a karate student with 4 years in the budokan and 5 years in a real life battlefield.
I like this analogy
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So, if I have a poly diploma with certifications like CCNA, CCNP, MCITP and Oracle, I can become an administrator of a company's network. Or at least an assistant admnistrator.
Or if I have a good university degree, I can be an IT officer or assistant IT office in charge of a project, or I can even be an IT manager, depending on how good I am. Or I can even start a business setting up and trouble shooting computer networks for other companies.
If I have a degree in Business Consulting, I can give advise to potential clients how to what to do with their business. Or I can be a marketing manager, helping other companies market their products.
Or with a degree, I can even qualify to teach upper secondary schools, JCs or even the polys.
All these jobs are definitely better jobs and at least they have some status.
Why would I ever want to be a university graduate entry level programmer, especially if that job doesn't last?Sorry but this is how I feel.
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This is really interesting. askandanswer, have you asked your friend why did he/she accepted this job?
There are many reasons to it. Some may be doing it for experience, some for passion, some for survivial.I wonder what's his/her story.
Mind share with us after you've asked? -
He didn't accept it because it is for passion or survival. It is just one of the jobs that came along the way and he is not too happy with it. After all, who likes to remain an entry level programmer for long. Even my younger cousin who is not even in poly yet commands a relatively good programming skill. So I tend to agree with him and that is why I am asking this question. Even I was also offered a teaching position in one of the commercial schools for IT.
So why would one want be employed as an entry level programmer for the long term when one can get better jobs elsewhere?
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Okay, now I get your question well already
When I say I wanna be a cleaner, healthcare worker, or elder care, other people ask me how come I wanna do such a low level job.
Then I tell them I wanna choose a work that I can directly add values to others people's life. Such jobs are readily available in the market but due to some restrictions that I have currently, I'm unable to find a job that matched my doctrine.So this is the type of jobs that I'm looking for. I do not go for status because it's superficial. While I look for the job that i like, I need to take into consideration of the salary as well because having a job that you like but unable to sustain life is useless.
I still remember there's a customer service job which I attended for 1 day, which totally violated my principals. I left at the end of the day. Somehow vitals informations were kept away from me by my job agent regarding about the job scope.
I used to be a private tutor teaching and a programmer, for the last 5 years, and I totally enjoyed my job. Because of some reasons, I've already stopped teaching. Teaching is good because I believe that my skills and expertise can help directly benefit student's life. Programming is a hobby that I picked up during teaching.
When you're doing something that you love a lot, you're happy.
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i going to learn from the start after i get my degree in computer science. i noe my coding standard. since i am not good, i go to learn it again. if ur fren is good then good lor. he can find better jobs provideed if he is confident in his skill. degree is just a name, does not means that uu got degree u noe everything or u must deserve that pay. i only request for 2300 to 2500 after i graduate this year. anything higher than that to me is a bonus
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No. The main issue is not the pay. It is why would one want to be an entry level programmer when there are better computing jobs around? Though System Administrator or Network Administrator jobs are not exactly university jobs, they are still much better than an entry level programmer job. If he had been employed as a programming supervisor or a senior programmer, it would have been more acceptable. Yet, he is offered the job of an entry level programmer. I still feel some jobs sucks and it is better to avoid them if you can.