Question about contracts at work

• Lique

  26 Nov 11, 23:39

  Hi there, I'd like to find out how enforceable is this work contract clause: "You will be liable for all legal costs incurred by the Company in the event legal actions need to be taken to exercise (the clause of monetary compensation for breaching the contract)" Does this mean that in any case, once legal action is taken by the company against said employee, the legal fees etc will have to be borne by the employee? Sorry if this is a stupid question, just want to clarify. What if there is already a breach of MOM employment acts by the company to the worker covered under the act (um, does the $2000 salary cap include commission or just basic salary anyway?) eg. Working outside your jobscope, too-long working hours and insufficient rest-days (not 1 day per week as stipulated by the employment act). Can this information be used to counterclaim? Thanks in advance!
• Rooney_07

  26 Nov 11, 23:48

  companies can construct these clauses all they want, but when it comes to court, it may not be enforceable, depending on the situation and case really. as many employees come and go every year, do you think they will really spend so much time and effort on suing the employee, unless its a very serious case, like cheating money etc.

• Lique

  26 Nov 11, 23:50

  Er. Sorry about that booboo. This is the missing bit-- You will be liable for all legal costs incurred by the Company in the event legal actions need to be taken to exercise this clause(of breaching the contract).
• Rooney_07

  26 Nov 11, 23:52

  Originally posted by Lique:

  Er. Sorry about that booboo. This is the missing bit—

  You will be liable for all legal costs incurred by the Company in the event legal actions need to be taken to exercise this clause(of breaching the contract).

  same reply lar duh.

• kengkia

  26 Nov 11, 23:56

  it means that the company can choose the most expensive lawyers, even queen consuls, and if u lose the case lan lan also.

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 00:12

  Oops! If it's termination of the contract by employee's absenteeism without leave (with a few months bond remaining) as well as not giving notice, do you reckon the company has a case to claim the monetary compensation stated in the contract?
• Rooney_07

  27 Nov 11, 00:22

  of course they will demand money from you, but if you dun pay, what can they do? sue you for the money lol. u think its worth the effort to do that?

  many employees are scared when they received such a letter from the company, demanding money. I dun believe they will go to such an extent to retrieve money from the staff, unless the staff owed the company money. even if go to court, you think the judge will side who? even if the company wins the judgement, if you dun pay, what can the company do? served writ to you and apply for seizure of your assets?

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 00:34

  No money owed, it's just that the employment act as well as several other legal sites make the payment in lieu of notice seem mandatory, but I guess it depends on whether they want to make that effort for getting small fry out of $6-7k And that the company 'can foist all legal costs on the employee' seems to make suing easy.. I'm not too sure of the procedure but it must be more complicated than I think heh. Only been reading up on employment laws this past week.
• FireIce

  27 Nov 11, 00:56

  B&W is B&W for some obvious reasons.
  

  if they say liao u can dun follow or counter, why they bother make u sign.

  yes, if in any case the co. take legal action, and win, u have to bear the legal costs
  arbo u think they so fwee ah

   

  co. contract supercede MOM guidelines (read, it's guidelines, not laws)

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 10:41

  Ok so if the co has sent a demand letter asking for money for not giving notice AND money for leaving before the contracted work time is up, is it even valid since they only stated in the contract that the employee has to pay for leaving before the contract ends. Didn't mention about not giving notice--but since the payment in lieu of notice is in the employment act, does it mean both claims are valid. Both claims amount to 6-7k. Of two minds about this. But after a bit of research, I'm thinking that seeing if they send a writ of summons, THEN take action might be the better option.
• FireIce

  27 Nov 11, 12:53

  can u tell us the WHOLE story?

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 19:32

  Have pm'ed you FireIce
• FireIce

  27 Nov 11, 21:00

  y cannot post here?

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 21:20

  Paranoid la. But then again, why not. I work at this beauty place as a salesperson. Signed a contract for 2 years--first job, was stupid and didn't know what to look out for in the contract. Have worked for 1 year 5 months. Through all this time, I realize what the company boss and om promise and what really happen are two different things. The pay is 1600 gross basic with commission at 2%-5% rate depending on service or product sales respectively. Monthly roadshows of which must go for 1-3 days, sometimes falling on your off day which they will give you money for, but not replace you another off day. I was like wtf I want my rest day I don't want your money! Colleagues felt the same way. If staff ask for more pay or grumble a bit, will kenna scolded. Thus staff turnover rate v high--about 50 came and went from when I started work. Mostly shorthanded now. Funniest thing is the boss blaming all the sales people for other staff leaving is cos we are not selling enough to give them incentive, im like hello there isnt enough beauticians to do treatment for customer how you want us to sell? Customer also all complaining that beautician keep leaving and getting replaced with newbies. The salespeople (2 of us in the salon) have to double as front desk most of the time. 4 or less days off per month, long working hours with no ot pay sometimes--they will say they 'owe you hours' that they record down, but no one really knows when they will reimburse your ot lol. Work officially starts 10.30 weekdays but clock in 10.05 and ends 8.30 but we only leave when customers leave, which may be 9-10++pm. Break is 2x45 mins for weekdays and 1/2 hr weekends but reeeally, sometimes no time to even eat tapow food, much less go out for break. my punchcard very clean one, just punch in at 9.30, out at 9-9.30. Weekend work timing is about 3 hours shorter. F-ed up thing is that the contract didnt state how many hours im supposed to work daily and how many days off per week i will get. So its not against employment act to work us over 44 hours weekly i think. I MIA on 15 November, leaving my uniform and company things behind. Now they send me letter of demand saying they'll report to mom to claim 'salary in lieu of notice'  plus not giving notice before leaving and threatening to sue for illegal possession of company things (which I don't have) and all legal costs will be borne by me. So that's the story. All i can say is that the contract is damn biased towards the coy and I was damn stupid not to notice. And I'll be damned if I have to give those idiots money. So far I know of a few who say they have mia and the coy didn't pursue. Not ethical but really, if they think they can bully employees like that. No I will try to fight them. Thanks for reading lol
• Rooney_07

  27 Nov 11, 21:23

  dun do anything and dun pay up. see if the co still send you a letter? most likely it wont.

• Rooney_07

  27 Nov 11, 21:26

  there are so many jobs out there, why you dun leave after 1 month? you should have left on your first day at work.

• Darkness_hacker99

  27 Nov 11, 21:28

  http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/employment-rights-conditions/hours-of-work-and-overtime/Pages/default.aspx

  Report to MOM, hopefully you get a nice lady to help you.

• FireIce

  27 Nov 11, 21:30

  u can gather those ppl working there now and those who left to support u in ur case (if u shd make it a case)

   

  otherwise, choose to just ignore and pray it will be 4gotten bcos the co. will be too busy trying to hire and handle new ppl to deal with an ex-staff

  blowing it up may end up in the media in a bad way and they will be opening their own can of worms

   

  but if u wanna do a good deed, u can try to let the public and the potential job-seekers be aware of this

   

  however, u are in the wrong to MIA

   

  for ur next job, scrutinise the contract. 

  read it at least 7 times, make sure u wun regret, then sign.

• Rooney_07

  27 Nov 11, 21:35

  a lawyer once told me. the employment contract are so ridiculous, that it wont get enforced in court. for example, if your company bar you from working for your competitors for 2 years after you quit, this is unenforceable. this came out in the ST when a lawyer advised that it is simply unenforceable, as it concerns the livelihood of the staff at hand.

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 21:42

  Originally posted by Rooney_07:

  there are so many jobs out there, why you dun leave after 1 month? you should have left on your first day at work.

  
  I thought still ok since I'm just out of school and I'm treating all of it as a learning experience. Then realized the workload just keeps increasing if one doesn't say no. Ie. they will say you try this, you can learn a lot--wrt roadshows, after that, you are confirmed to be in every roadshow. Cannot say no. If I didn't say yes, I might have not have to go for r/s at all. In the end, too late liao, everything also can already. Sales is already a little stressful, and the boss keeps giving negative reinforcements so it's damn annoying and disheartening to keep on tonging.
• Darkness_hacker99

  27 Nov 11, 21:45

  I got a feeling you are from my generation or from strawberry generation....

• FireIce

  27 Nov 11, 21:47

  now we need the employer part of the story....................

• Lique

  27 Nov 11, 21:52

  Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:

  http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/employment-rights-conditions/hours-of-work-and-overtime/Pages/default.aspx

  Report to MOM, hopefully you get a nice lady to help you.

  
  Told them already about 6 months ago, they said this kind of thing is between the coy and employee. If I want to sue, it's my own business..
• Darkness_hacker99

  27 Nov 11, 21:55

  can you type out the termination clause?

   

• Darkness_hacker99

  27 Nov 11, 21:59

  http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/probono/CLC/aboutCLC.aspx