A few questions from a free thinker
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Originally posted by Yunhaier:
TO christians who PERSISTENTLY sin, my approach would be to check their initial response to Christ, meaning at that point, when they put their trust in Christ, were they sincere or were there external influences or pressures being put on them? There are people who really think they are christians but they are not because as the bible says "not all who calls 'Lord, Lord" are my disciples. They may have being misled to believe so and they may have just said 'I BELIEVE' just to get rid of that person who was sharing with him.
Yup, people who does good deeds never require a tangible return. It's the intangible experience that makes them feel good.
How about this: A christian who accepted God as their God and saviour - but doesn't lead a good christian's life. Probably sin [b]knowing and consciously?
Cheers[/b]
If a person is sure of belief in Christ, then I would proceed to check why his persistency in sin. Persistency in sin could be due to a lack of understanding of what SIN is or it could be the person DID NOT KNOW he is SINNING or lastly, this person is just plainly disobedient to the WORD of God. For the first 2 reasons, it can be corrected. But for a person who is in plain disobedience, knows he sins but refuses to correct himself even after rebukes, then that is a real problem.
Belief in Christ does not give u a licence to sin. Yes if you were sincere in believing in Christ in the first place, you would still go to heaven. But if a christian continues to sin without repentance, when God, the holy Judge, judges you...I do not think you can escape a harsh judgement from a God who cannot stand sin. if you ask what the judgement or penalty might be, I do not know..because the bible did not write and I am not God hehehehe
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Originally posted by gasband:TO christians who PERSISTENTLY sin, my approach would be to check their initial response to Christ, meaning at that point, when they put their trust in Christ, were they sincere or were there external influences or pressures being put on them? There are people who really think they are christians but they are not because as the bible says "not all who calls 'Lord, Lord" are my disciples. They may have being misled to believe so and they may have just said 'I BELIEVE' just to get rid of that person who was sharing with him.
If a person is sure of belief in Christ, then I would proceed to check why his persistency in sin. Persistency in sin could be due to a lack of understanding of what SIN is or it could be the person DID NOT KNOW he is SINNING or lastly, this person is just plainly disobedient to the WORD of God. For the first 2 reasons, it can be corrected. But for a person who is in plain disobedience, knows he sins but refuses to correct himself even after rebukes, then that is a real problem.
Belief in Christ does not give u a licence to sin. Yes if you were sincere in believing in Christ in the first place, you would still go to heaven. But if a christian continues to sin without repentance, when God, the holy Judge, judges you...I do not think you can escape a harsh judgement from a God who cannot stand sin. if you ask what the judgement or penalty might be, I do not know..because the bible did not write and I am not God hehehehe Ok, that's a good mini Q & A we have for the past couple of hours and I would have to end it here because I have to go liao.
Anyway, if there is one favourite phrase in the bible, it has to be that PM from Gasband in 15 May 2003.
Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
1 Timothy 4:12
Nice chat dude and dudette.
Cheers -
what happened to grace? i am not perfect, i can tell u i sin, everyday. so are u telling me i am condamned?Originally posted by gasband:But if a christian continues to sin without repentance, when God, the holy Judge, judges you...I do not think you can escape a harsh judgement from a God who cannot stand sin.
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the key here is repentance.Originally posted by the_don:what happened to grace? i am not perfect, i can tell u i sin, everyday. so are u telling me i am condamned?
im hoping u dun sin without repentance.
God is good! He forgives all our sins like a super loving Father would do. but as all fathers go, he will surely be infuriated if we go our merry way of sin and self destruction?
and a person who truly loves Him and believes in Him will at least try not to sin. and openly admit his sin and pray for help. only then grace can come in. grace doesnt come in where there is a lack of true faith, humility much less repentance.
god bless!
and this is a super super great forum. been lurking here for some time... so thumbs up to sillyme, neontetra and all those peeps who contribute here!
well, im a newbie believer in Christ. so correct me if i shoot off my mouth or if im wrong!
cheers.
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I would consider myself a free thinker.. so maybe just to offer some things that i do think about when it comes to religion.
1. In general, i believe religion and the belief in a supreme being offers a certain psychological comfort. To know that when all else fails, there is this higher being that we can pray to. Besides this, it also serves as a moral beacon for humanity. But as much as it is so, it is often abused and the minds of believers are twisted by "preachers of their faith".. and so we have extremist factions in Islam and even Christianity. Much of the world's conflicts have religion as one of the agenda.. whether it is a hidden one or whether it is a declared one..
2. I would feel that at the end of it, I won't discredit religion as I cannot thnk of a world without it, when a few groups of lost souls become a few biliion lost individuals. Maybe lost is not a right word.. But hmmm.. I could be lost too.. Still i believe ultimately, we live for our own conscience and we answer to ourselves, personally i will do good but not for lusting for the eternal reward but just so that i feel better as a person. I don't answer to God.. only to myself and those I love.. -
Ya like what NTU SLACKER reiterates, it is SINNING WITHOUT REPENTANCE. Of cos we sin, most of the times everyday. But the difference between a disciple and a mere christian is one who takes up his cross daily and live the life God wants us to live. We are not condemned but as I said, if you know you sin and as a christian, sees no need to repent, then all I can say, God is a fair and holy God, He will stand no sin.Originally posted by the_don:what happened to grace? i am not perfect, i can tell u i sin, everyday. so are u telling me i am condamned? -
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Thank you all who have contributed constructively
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Free thinker back again, and let's just say i don't spend 24 hours a day online to partipate in forum discussions.
Anyway, back to the answers i have received for my few questions, i must say that some of the answers have been quite insightful but as usual there tends to be some discrepancy in different answers and thus i have to say that all the answers are mainly based on personal opinions and thinkings, and not what one will call concrete evidence.
One more question cropped up while typing this, maybe you people can ponder over it.
Q1) Why did God have to create Man? If Man was not created, there will be no sin. And if he did manage to foresee that Man will sin, it goes to show that he probably created Mankind for amusement sake rite?
Q2) How come we do not have the choice of whether we wish to be created? Isn't God's creation of Man against free will? Isn't it ironic that we can choose what to eat, what to be, what to believe in, but we do not have the choice to choose whether we wish to be brought into this world? -
Well this two question actually share a common answer.
God created us so that He can love us, so that we can be part of His creation (He gave Man the authority over His creation). Would He have created us if He knew we would sin? Don't be mistaken, He knew it for sure. But ask any parents whose child has gone into prison or done something wrong if they regret giving birth to them. I would dare say they'd say no.
But if He did not create us just because we'd sin, then where would free will be? In the first place, how would free will be given to something that is not created? You can't give vaccuum free will. -
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I'm a believer of Christ here so i'll try to answer your questions as best that i can alrite? Hope u get the answers u want.
Q1) Why did God have to create Man? If Man was not created, there will be no sin. And if he did manage to foresee that Man will sin, it goes to show that he probably created Mankind for amusement sake rite?
God did not have to create man, but He did so bcos He loves us and He wants to give us the gift of life. He knew us even before we were born, meaning He knows that we are all going to sin, and besides, He knows that man has a sinful nature. The Bible says that God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
If man were not created then the people that He loves would not have been created and He would be very sad, because He knew us already before we were even born, so therefore we were born so that He could love us. Amusement sake? I don't think its amusing to God to watch His creation sin against Him, but still he gives us life because He loves us so so much.
Q2) How come we do not have the choice of whether we wish to be created? Isn't God's creation of Man against free will? Isn't it ironic that we can choose what to eat, what to be, what to believe in, but we do not have the choice to choose whether we wish to be brought into this world?
Same reason why a baby cannot choose to be born or not. But whatever God does, He has a reason for it. Take our lives for example, He has a divine plan for each and every one of us. It says in the Bible (Jeremiah 29:11) that God knows the plans He has for us, plans to prosper us and not to harm us, plans to give us hope and a future. The reason we were born like i said in the above answer is because God loves us so much, that's why He gave us the gift of life. And with this life that He gave us, He gave us the choice on how we want to live it, eg. the food we eat, the clothes we wear.
And here's one thing that i would like to add, i hope you won't be offended by it in any way.
The penalty of sin is death. Man is sinful by nature. There is no hope for man because of that. But God gave us Jesus who is without sin or a sinful nature to die in our place, so that we may not die. The only obligation is to believe in Jesus and walk daily with Him as He is alive today (He resurrected from the dead on Easter Sunday). -
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Question: Why did God allow 911 to happen? Why didn't He perform a miracle to stop it?
Answer: (1 Corinthians 10:23) "Everything is permissible - But not everything is beneficial."
Therefore, if man has the choice to do such attrocity, he is able to do it, but it is not beneficial. Its just like why didn't God stop me from knocking into a lamppost in my own absent-mindedness? So that through this, i can learn to be more careful. For it says in James chapter 1 that through trials that happen in our lives, it tests our faith and develops our perseverence, so that we may mature and not lack wisdom. We learn from everything that happens to us.
However, upon saying this, it is promised in the Bible that God will not let us go through something we can't handle. Exact words of that verse are "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 -
it does mean that if one doesn't understand something it means it cannot be true ... eg i don't know why phones works the way they do but it works!!Originally posted by NeonTetra:There are many things God do we cannot understand...simply because He is God and not part of the created order. His ways are higher than ours and God works having the big picture in mind...we humans take one step at a time.
doesn't mean if one cannot see God there isn't a God: u cannot see atoms, electrons, protons but scientist tells us there is .... it is thro faith that we believe !! -
we all saved by God's grace thro Jesus'name not thro good deeds: if a person does only good deeds but doesn't beleive in Jesus: hellOriginally posted by Yunhaier: I have an honest question and so far, different people spoke different school of thoughts to me. But since this topic is being brought up, probably one of you people can enlighten me about this?
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It is said in the bible that you can only go heaven, provided you have been a good christian, and if you accepted God into your life.
Since Christian do not believe in the existence of reincarnation. Then when you die, either you enter heaven or go hell. (Because you can't be reincarnated and there is only two possible place you could go)
Then for example if Mother Teresa wasn't a Christian and she still did all the good work and deeds in her time. When she dies, because she wasn't a christian and didn't accept God into her life - so during judgement, she will enter hell?
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Cheers
u may think it's "bad"of God to do that but if u buy a plane ticket to go to USA however many good deeds u do the plane u sit on will still take u to USA not China! -
?? why love your child?? why help the needy??Originally posted by Yunhaier:Then what's use of people investing their time in good deeds? Mere self-actualization?
we cannot earn any merits to go to heaven by doing good deeds ...
we don't do good deeds because the bible tells us ...
we do good deed because God's love overshadows us & we want to share His love to other people! -
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i believe that it takes faith. Faith and believe that Jesus came to die for our sins. that is most important. However remember.. what Paul say 1 Corinthians 13: 1-3 [if i have a faith that can move mountains, but have no love, i am nothing]Originally posted by mayham321:we all saved by God's grace thro Jesus'name not thro good deeds: if a person does only good deeds but doesn't beleive in Jesus: hell
u may think it's "bad"of God to do that but if u buy a plane ticket to go to USA however many good deeds u do the plane u sit on will still take u to USA not China!
also looking at james 2:24,26 [man is justified by works and not by faith alone...... faith apart from works is dead]
from here, it shows that good deed r important.. but remember.. It is not ur good deeds that make u go to heaven. But the death of Jesus Christ who died to wash away our sins. It is he who justify us not ur own deeds.
he does his part and we do ours. you can't carry on sinning n not repenting. -
Amen to thatOriginally posted by songs:i believe that it takes faith. Faith and believe that Jesus came to die for our sins. that is most important. However remember.. what Paul say 1 Corinthians 13: 1-3 [if i have a faith that can move mountains, but have no love, i am nothing]
also looking at james 2:24,26 [man is justified by works and not by faith alone...... faith apart from works is dead]
from here, it shows that good deed r important.. but remember.. It is not ur good deeds that make u go to heaven. But the death of Jesus Christ who died to wash away our sins. It is he who justify us not ur own deeds.
he does his part and we do ours. you can't carry on sinning n not repenting. -
lolx like dat mehOriginally posted by NeonTetra:the disabilities and other so-called misfortunes are the result of sin in this world. When God created the world and human beings, He make them perfect and in His likeness..the result of sin causes the image of God to be distorted and man will have to die and suffer many things in life.
me hearing-impaired leh but yet i loved and supported by family and friends. -
Originally posted by cooleo:
Hi i am a free thinker and i have a few questions that i wish to ask all Christians. These questions are not meant to be offensive, but are asked because i am puzzled by them.
1) Why do people believe in God even though they have not seen him? After all seeing is believing.
Seeing is not believing, you go to watch a movie with special effects, the special effects are spectacular, but is seeing really believing? Believing is not seeing either, you can believe that tomorrow is the end of the world, but you may not see it either. For those not prepared to take a blind leap of faith, a scientific approach should be taken to test assumptions made. (Read carefully, I do not mean Science, I mean the scientific approach)
2) There is no mention of who created God or where he came from. So who created God?
The problem with a Creator is who created the Creater, and then who created the Creater who created the Creater, and so on. It goes into an infinite loop that never ends. You can say that there is a Creator but how do you know he is the original Creator?
3) Why do Christians think it is alright to ask other people to convert from their religions to Christianity?
If one has understood what is meant by conversion, then one will see that it is totally unnecessary. Jews do not convert, when a Jew is born, he is a Jew, if he falls out with his religion and converts to Christianity, then he is a Jew who became a Christian. Whatever he converts to, he is foremost a Jew because God was there first. Christians keep saying to do GodÂ’s will, but what is GodÂ’s will? To reject what God has planned and to do your own will can hardly be called to do GodÂ’s will, isnÂ’t it? And that is what conversion is all about.
So for a Taoist who had converted to Christianity, if he were to claim that he is doing God’s will, then he should say he is a Taoist who became a Christian, if he were to say he is not a Taoist, then he should also say he is not a Christian, because “Taoist” and “Christian” to him is just a phase, who knows he may again become a Buddhist in the future, because God decides that it is apt for him.
4) If a person converts to Christianity, he/she will go to heaven? Hm...doesn't that encourage many people to convert at the very last min?
Where is Heaven? This is the oldest trick in the world, promise you a future. Politicians often use it. “Vote for me! The best is yet to come”. And the thing is, the future never arrives, because when it finally comes, it comes as the present; there is always some other future. Non-converting religions say be content in the present, and if you are contented in the present, heaven is meaningless. You think of food because you are hungry, if you are already full, what is the meaning of more food? Hilter targeted the Jews, Oda Nobanga set himself himself against Zen monks, and Mao Zedong burned Taoist temples. All these people wanted to shape the world for their own aims, and to do that, they must make people miserable. If all are contented, what is there to revolt? If you are really contented, heaven can be on Earth; so what need is there for Heaven?
5) Why did Jesus show his face freely in the past as mentioned in the bible, but not now?
You see the form but do not see the formless, for the sake of those who seeks the formless, the formless takes a form. -
Tao is very big, the whole cosmic universe can be in it, yet the whole cosmic universe is not Tao. Christianity can be in Tao, Taoism can be in Tao. However, Taoism is not so big, it is very small in fact. Tao cannot be in Taoism, Tao cannot be in Christianity. Santa Claus can be about Christmas, but it is not apt to say that Christmas is about Santa Claus.Originally posted by F.O.S:I want to ask :
1) Is there monkey god?
2) Tiger god?
3) My mum use to bring me to temple pray to Kong ZI so that I can pass my studies, what I know he is a human, a teacher.
4) Guang Kong, he is a worrier, do you think during the war in the battle field, he don't eat beef?
no offence, my 2 cents -
Question!
I am a Buddhist, and believe in the teachings of Buddha, I have seen people being preached to accept Christ into their life. Some evangelists went so far as to call non believers sinful. Why does Christianity evolve to the stage where many, although not all, Christians began to preach the superiority of teachings of Christ over others very strongly?
I mean, there are many evangelists in other beliefs. But Christians have already made large impact on others with their beliefs. Just pick up this month Reader Digests and one can see the thoughts of the evangelists in Brazil, on the tribes in the jungles. There are many numerous examples like this since time immemorable, till topic like this one will come up, and people use Christianity as a punching bag.