Originally posted by Chin Eng:malign..... not maglin.... sorry, got to say that, scully kena accused of being unfair.... hope you don't mind....
do you think that the catholic is an independent church? within the definition of CHC (and FCBC and NCC) being seen as an independent church....?
Pathetic tactics again.....and trying to make use of others....
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:hmm, you quote an anti-Catholic link to show that the Catholic Church teaching is wrong....and that's not to deride Catholics doctrine? How oxymoronic! Maybe that's because you are pro-catholic......??
when did i quote a link and following that i said that the catholic church teaching is wrong.... stupid!
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Both chc and methodist started by ex-anglican what...so same lor...going by your logic mah.
i see..... so by that definition, we are all still catholics.... because the protestant movement was started by a catholic monk.....
... and that the Ren-Ci Hospital is part of the Raffles Institution because the founder was an old boy.....???
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Just because they have the words "catholic" means they are the same as the Catholic Church? Just like website that have the word "catholic" in it means catholics websites to you even though they are compleetly anti-catholics? What's wrong with your brain?
And you think just because you twisted something, we must ask the Pope "to condemn them, whatever," ?? Stop being arrogant with your high and migthy attidute lah... Who do you think you are?
You can continue to choose to think this is the same Catholic Church - it's your choice but the fact will not change that it is not. You are just pathetic beyond descriptions.
Who says that the Catholic Church is being magligned here? You think you have done a good job at that? Try harder.....
You are the only one who is kpkb-ing here since you have been proven wrong with your apple and orange comparison thing.... moving further and further away from the thread.....so stop your kpkb-ing....
The Catholic church is being maligned.... because it is suppose to be the largest independent church in Singapore, not CHC....
The Catholic church is being maligned.... because there are churches in the world that carries the catholic name yet they are not catholic....
.... the faithful in the catholic church does not do anything about it. tsk tsk....
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:Pathetic tactics again.....and trying to make use of others....
seriously dude...... you think dumb2 can be made used of????
Originally posted by Chin Eng:when did i quote a link and following that i said that the catholic church teaching is wrong.... stupid!
i see..... so by that definition, we are all still catholics.... because the protestant movement was started by a catholic monk.....
... and that the Ren-Ci Hospital is part of the Raffles Institution because the founder was an old boy.....???
Going by your stupid logic.......maybe...
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
The Catholic church is being maligned.... because it is suppose to be the largest independent church in Singapore, not CHC....
The Catholic church is being maligned.... because there are churches in the world that carries the catholic name yet they are not catholic....
.... the faithful in the catholic church does not do anything about it. tsk tsk....
You are the only one who said that......the Church is being maligned....
And you are trying to do so but in a pathetic way......
So continue flaming and kbkp-ing....it will not work.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:seriously dude...... you think dumb2 can be made used of????
anyhow, you try and still trying......
The answer's either YES or NO. FULL STOP.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:malign..... not maglin.... sorry, got to say that, scully kena accused of being unfair.... hope you don't mind....
do you think that the catholic is an independent church? within the definition of CHC (and FCBC and NCC) being seen as an independent church....?
too complicated.
simplify for me? lol
Originally posted by Smarty Boy:You are the only one who said that......the Church is being maligned....
And you are trying to do so but in a pathetic way......
So continue flaming and kbkp-ing....it will not work.
actually it is working..... you are replying aren't you????
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:too complicated.
simplify for me? lol
careful.... scully people say i make use of you.... ;-)
not complicated.... may want to check on my thread on "independent" church...
what is the definition of an "independent" church?
if CHC (as well as NCC) is considered as an "independent" church.... would you consider the mainstream denomations of Methodists, Anglicans as well as Catholics as "independent" church?
....but if you feel that i am making use of you, please PM me instead.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
careful.... scully people say i make use of you.... ;-)not complicated.... may want to check on my thread on "independent" church...
what is the definition of an "independent" church?
if CHC (as well as NCC) is considered as an "independent" church.... would you consider the mainstream denomations of Methodists, Anglicans as well as Catholics as "independent" church?
....but if you feel that i am making use of you, please PM me instead.
it depends what it means to be independent? own teachings which disagrees with basic biblical teachings? or is that church unaccountable to anyone else.
if i understand, CHC broke off from the anglicans, NCC also. since both pastors used to be anglicans?
so i guess i can consider them independant?
the catholic church accounts to the pope, so within themselves, they're also independant.
haha, confusing. where's the link to the independent topic?
i don't know anything about the methodists. but i can say anglicans are ok, since all the bishops hv to agree together to smth, there's a sense of accountability (key escrow)
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:it depends what it means to be independent? own teachings which disagrees with basic biblical teachings? or is that church unaccountable to anyone else.
if i understand, CHC broke off from the anglicans, NCC also. since both pastors used to be anglicans?
so i guess i can consider them independant?
the catholic church accounts to the pope, so within themselves, they're also independant.
haha, confusing. where's the link to the independent topic?
seems that you're been studying too hard.... ha ha.... and have stayed away from EH for a long time....
the point of contention is the claim (in a weblink) that CHC is the largest independent church in singapore..... then there is the rebuttal that, actually, the catholic church is the largest independent church in singapore.....
of course, that this point, the definition of "independent" is important....
1. it means a level of dependency, ie, on other churches.... of course, if that is the case, then every denomination is "independent"... that being the case, the supposition that the catholic church is the largest "independent" church will hold true, and then the assumption on CHC is incorrect.
2. it means that a church has no denomination or has forsaken the tradition of following a denomination, that means a church is no longer dependent on the practices of the said denomination and is deemed to be "independent" of traditional practices.
hence, the definition as to what the word "independent" mean is important.
so in a nutshell.... when a church calls itself an "independent church", what does it mean?
Originally posted by Chin Eng:seems that you're been studying too hard.... ha ha.... and have stayed away from EH for a long time....
the point of contention is the claim (in a weblink) that CHC is the largest independent church in singapore..... then there is the rebuttal that, actually, the catholic church is the largest independent church in singapore.....
of course, that this point, the definition of "independent" is important....
1. it means a level of dependency, ie, on other churches.... of course, if that is the case, then every denomination is "independent"... that being the case, the supposition that the catholic church is the largest "independent" church will hold true, and then the assumption on CHC is incorrect.
2. it means that a church has no denomination or has forsaken the tradition of following a denomination, that means a church is no longer dependent on the practices of the said denomination and is deemed to be "independent" of traditional practices.
hence, the definition as to what the word "independent" mean is important.
so in a nutshell.... when a church calls itself an "independent church", what does it mean?
interesting.
i think the key phrase is that the church has no denomination, and has forsaken the tradition of the following denomination. most churches of CHC nature, NCC etc, they consider themselves the charismatic movements. my first church, hope of god, is like that. when i asked what denomination we are under, my mentor told me that we do not have any, we just call ourselves charismatic.
is it possible to call a church independant because there's not accountability to anyone beyond a highest point?
that way, i think the catholic church can be considered as an independant body, since they can make their own rules and have their own authority to back those rules.
CHC, NCC also can be considered la, if pastor kong makes up his own rules, and no one can really point out that he's wrong etc.
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:is it possible to call a church independant because there's not accountability to anyone beyond a highest point?
actually all churches has no accountability beyond a highest point.... the trick is: where is the highest point....
personally, and no offense to CHC or NCC folks... that highest point is quite low....
if the Catholic church, with it's highest point at the Pope, then it is really high... and if the Catholic church is an independent church... than all churches are also independent churches... and that being the case, the phrase "independent church" really have no meaning because every church is one....
and that being the case too, the claim that CHC is the largest independent church does not hold water and this perception MUST change.
and from henceforth, i will support the view that the Catholic church is the largest independent church in the world... even though by now the world "independent" has no meaning whatsoever. 8-)
hmm. can i say that the anglicans don't have a highest point?
it ends in a group of leaders who sits down and decides before considering a move?
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:hmm. can i say that the anglicans don't have a highest point?
it ends in a group of leaders who sits down and decides before considering a movie?
ha ha..... this one is genuinely funny.
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
ha ha..... this one is genuinely funny.
watcha mean?
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:watcha mean?
that the anglican leaders have to sit down to debate before watching a movie.....
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
that the anglican leaders have to sit down to debate before watching a movie.....
lol!
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:lol!
ok.... "move".... i honestly didn't think it was a typo...
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
actually all churches has no accountability beyond a highest point.... the trick is: where is the highest point....personally, and no offense to CHC or NCC folks... that highest point is quite low....
if the Catholic church, with it's highest point at the Pope, then it is really high... and if the Catholic church is an independent church... than all churches are also independent churches... and that being the case, the phrase "independent church" really have no meaning because every church is one....
and that being the case too, the claim that CHC is the largest independent church does not hold water and this perception MUST change.
and from henceforth, i will support the view that the Catholic church is the largest independent church in the world... even though by now the world "independent" has no meaning whatsoever. 8-)
A logical conclusion which I wholeheartedly agree with. Well done !
I would also add that even if we take the narrower definition of an 'independent' church as a 'non-traditional' church or one that operates independently of the 'traditional' catholic, lutheran, anglican, methodist etc churches, I would still assert for the benefit of readers that:
City Harvest may be the largest independent (ie: 'non-traditional') church in Singapore but its overall membership of 25,000 (according to their website) is still only about 15% - 25% of the number of Catholic Christians in Singapore.
And I should also clarify that in all my posts about the Catholic Church, its dogma and doctrines etc, I always refer (as would most people) to the Church headed by the bishop of Rome (ie: the pope), the successor to St.Peter, unless otherwise stated. So when I say Catholic Church (unless otherwise stated), I do not refer to any church, group or society that has broken away from the pope, regardless of whether they call themselves 'Catholic'.
I'm lost. I give up. hahahaha
Can anyone tell me how did the discussion about God's existence (mostly atheists humtum-ing the Christians' belief) became discussion about denomination and identity of "Catholic"?
Dun get me wrong. I am not laughing at anyone. I am just finding it interesting that I tried reading the posts that I missed after breaking away from this thread for a few days only to discover that the centre of the discussion has already shifted far away from the atheists' query on God's existence.
Originally posted by Omnia:..... I always refer (as would most people) to the Church headed by the bishop of Rome (ie: the pope), the successor to St.Peter, unless otherwise stated. So when I say Catholic Church (unless otherwise stated), I do not refer to any church, group or society that has broken away from the pope, regardless of whether they call themselves 'Catholic'.
not an attempt to flame anyone....
interestingly, sometime back, there was a guy who calls himself a Catholic that vehemently defended the Catholic stance..... but pm-ed me and told me NOT EVER to call him a Roman Catholic....
... so I guess, it's to each his own.....
Originally posted by Honeybunz:I'm lost. I give up. hahahaha
Can anyone tell me how did the discussion about God's existence (mostly atheists humtum-ing the Christians' belief) became discussion about denomination and identity of "Catholic"?
Dun get me wrong. I am not laughing at anyone. I am just finding it interesting that I tried reading the posts that I missed after breaking away from this thread for a few days only to discover that the centre of the discussion has already shifted far away from the atheists' query on God's existence.
quite common nowadays.... because we don't have a you-know-what.... 8-)