The gospel is not christian....
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So..u implying that you want to be killed by those multi-million dollars guided bombs or cruise missiles right?Originally posted by ben1xy:i dunno abt the weapons... but to kill someone with the weapons at a cost price of 200 bucks... life is cheap
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The only way u can know how early church christians are like is to take a time machine.....
some groups label God as G_d and is definitely not like first century Christians at all.... -
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=254&letter=J&search=Jesus
Jewish Encyclopedia on Jesus
Attitude Toward the Law.
Yet in several particulars Jesus declined to follow the directions of the Law, at least as it was interpreted by the Rabbis. Where John's followers fasted, he refused to do so (ii. 1
. He permitted his followers to gather corn on the Sabbath (ii. 23-2, and himself healed on that day (iii. 1-6), though the stricter rabbis allowed only the saving of life to excuse the slightest curtailment of the Sabbath rest (Shab. xxii. 6). In minor points, such as the ablution after meals (vii. 2), he showed a freedom from traditional custom which implied a break with the stricter rule of the more rigorous adherents of the Law at that time. His attitude toward the Law is perhaps best expressed in an incident which, though recorded in only one manuscript of the Gospel of Luke (vi. 4, in the Codex Bezæ), bears internal signs of genuineness. He is there reported to have met a man laboring onthe Sabbath-day—a sin deserving of death by stoning, according to the Mosaic law. Jesus said to the man: "Man, if thou knowest what thou doest, blessed art thou; but if thou knowest not, accursed art thou, and a transgressor of the Law." According to this, the Law should be obeyed unless a higher principle intervenes.
While claiming not to infringe or curtail the Law, Jesus directed his followers to pay more attention to the intention and motive with which any act was done than to the deed itself. This was by no means a novelty in Jewish religious development: the Prophets and Rabbis had continuously and consistently insisted upon the inner motive with which pious deeds should be performed, as the well-known passages in Isa. i. and Micah vi. sufficiently indicate. Jesus contended that the application of this principle was practically equivalent to a revolution in spiritual life; and he laid stress upon the contrast between the old Law and the new one, especially in his Sermon on the Mount. In making these pretensions he was following a tendency which at the period of his career was especially marked in the Hasidæans and Essenes, though they associated it with views as to external purity and seclusion from the world, which differentiated them from Jesus. He does not appear, however, to have contended that the new spirit would involve any particular change in the application of the Law. He appears to have suggested that marriages should be made permanent, and that divorce should not be allowed (x. 2-12). In the Talmud it is even asserted that he threatened to change the old law of primogeniture into one by which sons and daughters should inherit alike (Shab. 116a); but there is no evidence for this utterance in Christian sources. Apart from these points, no change in the Law was indicated by Jesus; indeed, he insisted that the Jewish multitude whom he addressed should do what the Scribes and Pharisees commanded, even though they should not act as the Scribes acted (Matt. xxiii. 3). Jesus, however, does not appear to have taken into account the fact that the Halakah was at this period just becoming crystallized, and that much variation existed as to its definite form; the disputes of the Bet Hillel and Bet Shammai were occurring about the time of his maturity.
It is, however, exaggerated to regard these variations from current practises as exceptionally abnormal at the beginning of the first century. The existence of a whole class of 'Am ha-Areẓ, whom Jesus may be taken to represent, shows that the rigor of the Law had not yet spread throughout the people. It is stated (iii. 7) that, owing to the opposition aroused by his action on the Sabbath, Jesus was obliged to flee into heathen parts with some of his followers, including two or three women who had attached themselves to his circle. This does not seem at all probable, and is indeed contradicted by the Gospel accounts, which describe him, even after his seeming break with the rigid requirements of the traditional law, as lodging and feasting with the Pharisees (Luke xiv.), the very class that would have objected to his behavior. -
.....Originally posted by laurence82:So..u implying that you want to be killed by those multi-million dollars guided bombs or cruise missiles right?
wad do u think leh -
Romans 2:12-16
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Since we are now at Romans 2, let's not forget:
Romans 2:12-16
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law [b]13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.[/b]
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.
Romans chapter 2 is about God's righteous judgement. Verses 12 to 29 are predominantly addressed to the Jewish Christian in the Roman church. This distinction can be clearly seen in verse 14 where Gentile Christians are mentioned. -
Then please explain verse 15.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Since we are now at Romans 2, let's not forget:
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.
Romans chapter 2 is about God's righteous judgement. Verses 12 to 29 are predominantly addressed to the Jewish Christian in the Roman church. This distinction can be clearly seen in verse 14 where Gentile Christians are mentioned. -
I really dun understand anything abt pro-Jewish mentality when it comes to doctrine.....
The Jews were not chosen becoz they are more righteous than any other races.......and God's ultimate plan is for ALL to know him......whether u are following Jewish customs/law or not, it's never a issue for believers.....
However, if some are insistent on only Jewish ways are acceptable.....then it is wrong and extra-biblical. It's like attaching conditions to God's salvation plan to believers and is totally unacceptable.
The Jews are God's chosen pple no doubt, but it is not necessary for believers to turn Jewish to believe in Christ.
I am Chinese, and if I call on Christ's name as Ye1 Su1, am I doing the wrong thing? If I call on Christ's name as Jesus? Am I doing the wrong thing? I have heard Koreans in my church call on Christ's name as "Yaesu-nim"....then is it wrong too? OF COZ NOT!
It is only wrong when believers try to become Pharisees.....insisting that they themselves are right while others are completely wrong.....Originally posted by Chin Eng:Since we are now at Romans 2, let's not forget:
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.
Romans chapter 2 is about God's righteous judgement. Verses 12 to 29 are predominantly addressed to the Jewish Christian in the Roman church. This distinction can be clearly seen in verse 14 where Gentile Christians are mentioned. -
What's there to explain? I have never said that the law is unimportant. All I am pointing out is that even during the times of the Apostles, there is a great difference between Jews and Gentiles. There are no supporting evidence that the Gentiles need to adhere to Jewish laws.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Then please explain verse 15.
I have asked this question before, how do we differentiate Jewish cultural practices and God's given precepts (to the Jews in the Old Testament)?
On the contrary, these verses deal the the puffed up attitudes of the Jews who think they they are the special chosen ones, with it comes the holier-than-thou attitude when they deal with the Gentiles.
Matthew Henry's Commentary:
In the former chapter the apostle had represented the state of the Gentile world to be as bad and black as the Jews were ready enough to pronounce it. And now, designing to show that the state of the Jews was very bad too, and their sin in many respects more aggravated, to prepare his way he sets himself in this part of the chapter to show that God would proceed upon equal terms of justice with Jews and Gentiles; and now with such a partial hand as the Jews were apt to think he would use in their favour.
extracted from:http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryComplete/mhc-com.cgi?book=ro&chapter=2#Ro2_1
Please bear in mind that this entire passage is addressed to the Jews with a puffed sense of importance.
Please bear in mind the importance of understanding the context of any given passage. -
Exactly.... here we are contributing to an English language forum, if I insist on using the Chinese versions of the people in the Bible, it will seem really out of place. I guess here's where the irritation occurs.Originally posted by laoda99:I am Chinese, and if I call on Christ's name as Ye1 Su1, am I doing the wrong thing? If I call on Christ's name as Jesus? Am I doing the wrong thing? I have heard Koreans in my church call on Christ's name as "Yaesu-nim"....then is it wrong too? OF COZ NOT!
Maybe we should stop attending church too.... afterall synagogue may be the correct way. -
very early today uncle eng!
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early to bed early to rise makes an old man healthy and wise......Originally posted by ben1xy:very early today uncle eng!
the wise part is really overrated. you'd never see me logging in after 10 pm. Koon time. -
i tot we are under grace not undeee lawOriginally posted by laoda99:I really dun understand anything abt pro-Jewish mentality when it comes to doctrine.....
The Jews were not chosen becoz they are more righteous than any other races.......and God's ultimate plan is for ALL to know him......whether u are following Jewish customs/law or not, it's never a issue for believers.....
However, if some are insistent on only Jewish ways are acceptable.....then it is wrong and extra-biblical. It's like attaching conditions to God's salvation plan to believers and is totally unacceptable.
The Jews are God's chosen pple no doubt, but it is not necessary for believers to turn Jewish to believe in Christ.
I am Chinese, and if I call on Christ's name as Ye1 Su1, am I doing the wrong thing? If I call on Christ's name as Jesus? Am I doing the wrong thing? I have heard Koreans in my church call on Christ's name as "Yaesu-nim"....then is it wrong too? OF COZ NOT!
It is only wrong when believers try to become Pharisees.....insisting that they themselves are right while others are completely wrong.....
why breyton want us to go under law
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did you read Brey's whole exchange?Originally posted by MarqueeMatchup:i tot we are under grace not undeee law
why breyton want us to go under law -
yah he wants christians go to torah after saved.Originally posted by Icemoon:did you read Brey's whole exchange?
christians do not go torah after saved. we have Jesus inside us. -
Somehow, i like the simplicity of the above forumer.
These text are so childlike, but yeah. That's all it counts right? -
yah it counts. Jesus inside the christian people, and fruits of the Spirit that we under no more the law. it is what in galastians.Originally posted by M©+square:Somehow, i like the simplicity of the above forumer.
These text are so childlike, but yeah. That's all it counts right? -
if you do not go back to the tenach and understand the torah, one question, how do you grow? If the tenach and the toarah are so over as many here claim, then why do we have the bible as the OT and the NT? Why no just get rid of the OT all together if it is of no further use.Originally posted by MarqueeMatchup:yah he wants christians go to torah after saved.
christians do not go torah after saved. we have Jesus inside us.
We have the Holy Spirit in us and we have the word of Yahweh so that we can check and see whether the sprit in you is leading you in the right direction... and for assumptions sake, lets just say you only have the NT, then how can you be sure of the whole word of Yahweh?
Many here claim we are heirs of the covenant of avraham but how do we even know what that covenant is and what the blessings are unless we refer back to the tenach and the torah?
You go back to the torah and the tenach to understand your YAHWEH. In the NT( brit chadashah ) when the apostle shaul refers to scripture, which scripture did you think he was referring to the NT? No. It is the torah and tenach that he meant. When shaul and all the other apostles preached, they used the tenach and the torah to teach and to encourage. Never the brit chadashah.
Who is Yeshua? He is the word made flesh. So if you reject the torah and the tenach, you also reject Yeshua. The word of Yahweh does not start with the brit chadashah, it starts with the torah. You cannot claim to accept Yeshua and say that you do not accept the torah and the tenach. They are inseprable. The NT, is a continuation of the OT and without the understanding of the OT, there is no understanding of the NT. Even in the natural if you take something out of context, you fail, so without the context and understanding of the torah and the tenach, you cannot understand the brit chadashah. -
Who is getting rid of the OT in the first place?Originally posted by breytonhartge:if you do not go back to the tenach and understand the torah, one question, how do you grow? If the tenach and the toarah are so over as many here claim, then why do we have the bible as the OT and the NT? Why no just get rid of the OT all together if it is of no further use.
We have the Holy Spirit in us and we have the word of Yahweh so that we can check and see whether the sprit in you is leading you in the right direction... and for assumptions sake, lets just say you only have the NT, then how can you be sure of the whole word of Yahweh?
Many here claim we are heirs of the covenant of avraham but how do we even know what that covenant is and what the blessings are unless we refer back to the tenach and the torah?
You go back to the torah and the tenach to understand your YAHWEH. In the NT( brit chadashah ) when the apostle shaul refers to scripture, which scripture did you think he was referring to the NT? No. It is the torah and tenach that he meant. When shaul and all the other apostles preached, they used the tenach and the torah to teach and to encourage. Never the brit chadashah.
Who is Yeshua? He is the word made flesh. So if you reject the torah and the tenach, you also reject Yeshua. The word of Yahweh does not start with the brit chadashah, it starts with the torah. You cannot claim to accept Yeshua and say that you do not accept the torah and the tenach. They are inseprable. The NT, is a continuation of the OT and without the understanding of the OT, there is no understanding of the NT. Even in the natural if you take something out of context, you fail, so without the context and understanding of the torah and the tenach, you cannot understand the brit chadashah. -
we are under grace, but it does not absolve us from understanding and knowing and living the law.Originally posted by MarqueeMatchup:yah it counts. Jesus inside the christian people, and fruits of the Spirit that we under no more the law. it is what in galastians.
Yeshua died so that we do not have to face the consequences of the law, but remember He came to fulfil it and not abolish it, so if it is not abolished, it still stands. -
you are!Originally posted by laoda99:Who is getting rid of the OT in the first place? -
I think u r very funny type of personOriginally posted by breytonhartge:you are!
If Christians are getting rid of OT, why do we still read them in Church? -
Brey, not good ah, I don't Laoda actually says throw away the OT (at least not in this thread, he didn't). what he is advocating is that Christians today is no longer required follow the Jewish traditions/cultures.Originally posted by breytonhartge:you are!
on OT, When we says Jesus is the perfect lamb of God, sacrified for our sins, how do we understand this unless we to study the temple sacrifies/offerings and their meaning?
cheers
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Precisely!Originally posted by vince69:Brey, not good ah, I don't Laoda actually says throw away the OT (at least not in this thread, he didn't). what he is advocating is that Christians today is no longer required follow the Jewish traditions/cultures.
on OT, When we says Jesus is the perfect lamb of God, sacrified for our sins, how do we understand this unless we to study the temple sacrifies/offerings and their meaning?
cheers
Look around the churches in Singapore, as well as your previous church NCC,
who is getting rid of the OT in the bible? -
Good that u have ur own forum now.Originally posted by breytonhartge:At the beginning. Welcome to all those who pass by here and I hope that you will visit often.
Here I hope that with Yahweh's guidance and with His wisdom and discernment, we can delve into the deeper truths and mysteries of the word of Yahweh.
You may wonder as to the distinctly Hebraic slant to this forum, one I take without excuse because it is my conviction that in order to grow and to see the deeper truths in the word of Yahweh, we have to understand the hebraic roots or the biblical roots of our faith in Yeshua.
I hope that this forum will be able to bless you and give you pause to think about the accepted corrupted practices of "christianity" as we know it today.
So that we can challenge each other to progress as Yahweh would have us to rather than going further and further away from Yahweh's and Yeshua's original intent and from the original biblical truth.
Shabbat Shalom to all.
My......u really have shifted far from anti-RC to anti-Christian.
Hope one day u can see what u are doing.