Need some clarifications / advice from Christians
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That is their perogative isn't it? If they think they have a revelation from God that God is going to wipe homosexuals from the face of the earth or that they hear from God that God wants them to kill the homosexuals; that is their perogative.Originally posted by casino_king:
That is why you must be Born Again. There is no point for you to lie to yourself. That is the beauty of Jesus' teaching. That is the beauty of God's way. It is a personal one on one you and Him relationship.[/quote]Originally posted by gssq:
Nobody can speak for anybody. It is a personal relationship with God. Nobody judges anybody. Only God can judge people. I talked to the Muslims in these forums and they agreed that it is up to God to judge and how God wants to deal with anybody is God's perogative.
You're not getting it. If you are born again, and someone else is born again, but your god is telling both of you contradictory things - how?
As for consequences of one's actions, well you have to bear the consequences of your actions, don't you? Born Again or otherwise.Originally posted by casino_king:
I can tell you that God does not condemn the Homosexuals in the same way as God does not condemn the prostitute in the same way as God does not condemn your sins, your white lies.Originally posted by gssq:
Other born again people would disagree.
I can only tell them my revelations from God. I can tell them the consequences of their actions. I can tell them that Born Again does not equal becoming God. I know what Born Again is. I know what revelation of God's will in a Born Again person's life is.
I do not judge them. The homosexuals and the homophobic. I simply remind each the consequences of their actions. I simply advise them not to judge each other for they both are not perfect. Cast the first stone, who?
[quote]Originally posted by casino_king:
God is simply waiting for you to come to Him. If you are sin conscious, remember that Jesus had paid the price for you and just come to God and be Born Again. There is no point for you to lie to yourself.Originally posted by gssq:
What then would be the point of my lying to myself (that is not any of your business BTW) but more importantly, why would I lie to you? Whether you believe me or not, whether you come to God or not, if God does not force you why should I? God can God does not; I certainly cannot. I do the will of God in my life.
There's also no point lying to yourself if you can't perceive this god.Originally posted by casino_king:
13 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11Originally posted by gssq:
I still go with
Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
Lev 20:13 -16 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.
And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Need any more?
13 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11 [/quote]
6 Whoever sheds man's blood, his blood will be shed by man, for God made man in his own image.
17 "'He who strikes any man mortally shall surely be put to death.
21 "You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones,'You shall not murder;' and'Whoever shall murder shall be in danger of the judgment.'
18 He said to him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder.''You shall not commit adultery.''You shall not steal.''You shall not offer false testimony.'
19 You know the commandments:'Do not murder,''Do not commit adultery,''Do not steal,''Do not give false testimony,''Do not defraud,''Honor your father and mother.'"
20 You know the commandments:'Don't commit adultery,''Don't murder,''Don't steal,''Don't give false testimony,''Honor your father and your mother.'"
9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not commit murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
It is clear it is direct it is unambiguous.
Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
1. Who is Molech? (Why would you even care?)
2. The Leviticus Laws, what sort of laws are they?
What is the difference between the Ten Commandments "Thou Shall Not Kill" and the The Levitical Laws? Why was Jesus brought before the Romans for His crucifixtion?
I think you should not be too arrogant. Please try to answer the questions I have put to you. The answers would be obvious if you were born again and I want to see if it is obvious to you. It would seem to me that you do not try to read what I am trying to tell you but simply want to find faults where there are none. So please try to answer the questions for your own edification. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
So are you now going to tell me that because God did not give you evidence of His existence, you are free not to put your Faith in God? That is your perogative, God is not going to force you otherwise God will have to turn you into an animal.Originally posted by gssq:
Wrong.
If your god doesn't want to show himself, there's nothing I can do right?
Do what I did. Ask and it shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and the door into the Kingdom of heaven shall be open unto you.Originally posted by casino_king:
Why is it that I can put my Faith in God and you cannot? I am a man and you are a man.Originally posted by gssq:
If I jump off a bridge does that mean you should jump off a bridge also?
"Why is it that I can jump off a bridge you cannot? I am a man and you are a man."
If I asked you find out for yourself, you cannot? Why not?Originally posted by casino_king:
if you say something like "Brahma" or "Tooth Fairy" you are automatically arrogant for you have a concept of God that you are comfortable with and that is idolatry. Idolatry speaks of man's arrogance. That he is higher than God. That he can come only to a God he understands.Originally posted by gssq:
There is but one GOD. You do not believe in one fewer god; you have not put your Faith in GOD. One's man idol is andother's man idol. One man idol is not God. It is that man's idol.
So those of other religions are arrogant? I won't report you for sedition but let's hope others aren't as idiotic as FundieP.
One man's god is another man's idol. One man's delusion is another man's god.
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen RobertsOriginally posted by casino_king:
Arrogant. You don't be arrogant before God.
The Jews on the other hand, knows that there is one God but what did they do? The try to please God by using their own strenght and abilities and not by simply having Faith in God. Arrogance again.
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Modern version .. as in jian ti?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:That's the Pater Noster in Chinese!!!
I only know the modern version. -
actually not much diff laOriginally posted by Icemoon:Modern version .. as in jian ti?
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It is the Pater Noster.Originally posted by gssq:Wth. Can't read Chinese lah, esp fan ti zhi.
The chinese version easier to understand.
I dunno wth is "Our father who art in heaven"
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Amazingly .. the website where i got it says it is the Peking version. (in fan ti?!)Originally posted by laoda99:actually not much diff la -
yeah this sounds like different from the taiwan version which my gf saw when she went israelOriginally posted by Icemoon:Amazingly .. the website where i got it says it is the Peking version. (in fan ti?!)
fan ti used in china b4 1960s....
wat is the word used for trespasses har? very weird.... -
lol .. qian4? Like xiao qian the ghost?Originally posted by laoda99:yeah this sounds like different from the taiwan version which my gf saw when she went israel
fan ti used in china b4 1960s....
wat is the word used for trespasses har? very weird....
or zai4?
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should be zaiOriginally posted by Icemoon:lol .. qian4? Like xiao qian the ghost?
or zai4?
later i go check dictionary -
if u say u cant judge ppl and say hus religion is rite and wrong, then ure most pro a free thinker or shld i say a dumb person. hu accepts everything.i don c how u judge which is rite and wrong when u don judge......
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Just a reply for asimplelife, if he ever read tis...
Frankly from the way u ask the question I can say tat christainity is not suitable for u. If u wanna believe in christainity, u have to abandon science and accept religious scriptures as truth. Science has itself proven to be very reliable and factual ever since the day u r borned. U r probably borned in the hospital where it is built using structural engineering. They probably use some electrical device such as lights which is science of electricity. They made use of thermodynamic for aircon and the doctor helping u to be borned is medical science. Science has proven itself so reliable tat one don't need to think twice when going to a new building (even though tall things fall) or typing on a computer (though it can explode or shock people).
On the other hand religious content has rarely proven itself right when it run in contradiction with science so much so tat it is natural to doubt them. In fact I think the common people can't think of an example where religion is proven to be right whereas matured science is wrong when they contradict each other. Looking on religious content such as falungong and scientology, they claim many ridiculous issues tat is obviously wrong to unbiased people. To think tat religion content is right whereas science is wrong need lots of convincing and evidence but so far, the attempt to do it all really weak
some examples of ridiculous claims from religious content
Scientologists believe that you can be harmed by memories of injuries that happened to you during previous lifetimes. They also believe that, if you pay enough money to Scientology and take enough courses of treatment and training, you can become immortal -- a fully-developed being with mind-over-matter powers who is above physical death.
Scientologists also believe that you can be bothered by "body thetans" and "clusters", which are the ghosts, or clusters of ghosts, of millions of people from another planet who were murdered here millions of years ago by the evil Galactic Overlord Xenu. Those ghosts are supposedly now clinging to your skin and trying to get into your body and giving you all kinds of pain and troubles. But for only $375,000 or more, Scientology will get rid of those pesky interplanetary cooties for you.
Now looking at christainity, we can again see many issues tat is against science as well. Looking at the young vs old earth arguments, the christain will raise up the same few points
1) days is not "days" as we know it. (Tis is surprising because the bible itself clearly explicitly mention wat tat a night folow by day is consider a "day". The rest of the bible also use the word "day" as wat a day is about. Otherwise jesus reserrection is not 3 days later but 3 billion years )
2) they say tat the earth is really a few thousands years. (Tis again is very ridiculous because there r many irrefutable examples to show an old earth. An example are logs found in a volcanic region. The rings of the trees with the ones buried inside the lava themselves add up to more than the years consider in the bible)
They also say tat evolution is wrong, and evolution is really an established theory tat form the core of biology. U grab any established biology textbook and they will surely mention evolution in it. They again will come out with some flawed arguments about how evolution is wrong (i do nto want to go through it all again) but I can simply tell u tis point again tat religion content rarely, if never proves matured science theory wrong. Given the many years of developing evolution theorem, it is considered a matured scientific fact.
And lastly, bible never mention dinosaur and possibly because the writers of the bible do not know there are dinosaurs. Whoever says tat bible mention dinosaur in the bible is nonsense because dinosaurs never lived with men before. They r extinct before men came about. (noah is a man)
If u wanna believe in christainity, u have to believe all these despite the fact tat it runs in contradiction with science In fact u have to believe more ridiculous facts such as noah ark (it is proven tat the ark can not hold tat much animals. And no eggs can walk up to the ark, and mammals can't lay eggs, and there is not so much water, and the population density and distribution of human from now till noah time is impossible), dead walking the land and no one take notice (when jesus die deads r walking on the streets). And furthermore, u will be told not to read and interprete the bible on your own. U r forced to study wat a group of people had researched and u will be swayed to follow wat they say. They forbid independent thinking. From the viewpoint of cultic identification, tis is because tis way they can still maintain followship even with a faulty scripture.
The Guru, his church, and his teachings are always right, and above criticism, and beyond reproach.
In some cults, the guru is dead, but the principle is the same. I use the word "guru" loosely here; in many cults the charismatic leader has the title of minister, priest, yogi, swami, prophet, or all-knowing wise man. Or even, "Chairman Mao." In any case, the leader is always right.
Likewise, the teachings of the guru are always right, and when he dies, his writings become holy scriptures, infallible and unquestionable. And the guru's church is always right, and the guru's successors are always right, and everything about the cult is always right.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html#cq_guru_right
Why don't u go to tis website to read a bit before making a decision ? -
Haven't you ever noticed how God only heals invisible ailments that cannot be verified?
God never instantly strips 200 pounds of ugly fat right off of an immensely obese bikini-clad woman with a glandular problem, right there on stage in front of the TV evangelist, the TV cameras, and some independent witnesses. God never puts new legs or arms on amputees on Sunday Morning TV shows, or on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
Nope, it's always cancer, arthritis, paralysis, gall bladders, blindness, pinched nerves, or other things that the TV camera cannot see; things where independent verification is not possible. And, where verification is possible, like with the Viet Nam Veterans who have been paraplegics since the War, well, God doesn't bother to fix any of them in faith-healing ceremonies. God never fixes their broken spinal cords or replaces their lost legs. God doesn't seem to like the Viet Nam Vets who have authentic medical records. The Lord sure does work in mysterious ways.
A corollary to all of this irrational nonsense is the implicit assumption that you are not supposed to criticize it. Cults often demand that people stop thinking logically and just "have faith". Cults consider it immoral, or at least a serious spiritual failing, for someone to say that the cherished tenets of the group are illogical and crazy. Cults will even claim that you are harming other cult members by questioning the craziness -- you are keeping them from going to Heaven, or you are weakening their faith, or you are leading them into temptation and to their downfall. -
arrogant person who thinks he is God? cast the first stone then, even Jesus refrained... hmmm.... should I follow Jesus' example or arrogant people's example?Originally posted by davidche:if u say u cant judge ppl and say hus religion is rite and wrong, then ure most pro a free thinker or shld i say a dumb person. hu accepts everything.i don c how u judge which is rite and wrong when u don judge...... -
Just a reply for asimplelife, if he ever read tis...
God does not do evidence. God requires man to come by Faith. If God gives you evidence; why would you bother with a God so small?
The Bible is not a science text Book. All science text books should be thrown away because and should be destroyed because it is not complete. There are too many gaps in scientific knowledge. Scientists themselves understand that science is subject to change.
Like gravity... Newton came up with a nice model of gravity but when Einstein came along, Newtonian gravity was replaced by Einstein's model. The theory of Gravity is "out there". Meaning nobody knows the truth. All scientific theories are "out there;" subject to change.
We do not throw away science text books because we understand that man is finite; incomplete; inconsequential; impermanent.
Instinctively we also know that there is more to human life then this. Man instinctively knows that there is a God and that he can know God.
Don't let anybody fool you. Don't let anybody discourage you. If God is calling you, then respond. There is only one God. Your relationship is a personal relationship. Nobody has any right to discourage you and tell you otherwise. Just because they have never put their faith in God and does not know God, they have no right to tell you that there is no God.
You have to be patient. Moses waited for 40 years before God spoke to him. You have to learn to wait on God. It is up to God, you have no choice but to wait and in the meantime learn about God from people who knows God. If what they tell you about God does not make sense then reject it.
In time of need and trouble and fear, just call out to God. Just say and cry out "God." There is only one God. You cannot go wrong. Do not try to understand God in your head. Whatever people tell you about God understand that it is simply their perception of God and not meant to be a complete assesment and understanding of God.
If people try to tell you that God's name is this and that, reject it for God is too big to be confined in a name. Reject it as the name of God and as a concept of God but do learn why people call God that name. The name represents somebody's or some people's understanding of God during a certain period of time at certain point in time.
Ask God for faith to seek Him and you shall find God. When you have found God, knock on the door of the Kingdom of God and it shall be opened to you.
1. Respond to God's call directly.
2. Learn about God from people who have met God but reject what they tell you if it does not make sense to you.
3. Be patient and in the meantime keep your faith in God until God gives you a spirit when you are ready.
4. This spiritual journey is worth all the wealth in the world.
Jesus said: What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul? -
Do u by any means go to a hotel room recently and ask people to call u god ?
U sound more and more closer to insanity by telling people to throw away scientific knowledge -
a woman calling herself god?Originally posted by stupidissmart:Do u by any means go to a hotel room recently and ask people to call u god ?
U sound more and more closer to insanity by telling people to throw away scientific knowledge -
I've already made a decision. Think your argument is quite fair. But end of the day, it's no point debating between religion and logic because one side will point out things that are invisible while the other judges on tangible objects. Let's just have peace.Originally posted by stupidissmart:Why don't u go to tis website to read a bit before making a decision ?
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"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
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here is the full QuotationOriginally posted by gssq:"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
THERE ARE those who scoff at the schoolboy, yet it was the schoolboy who said "Faith is believing what you know isn't so." - Mark Twain -
Precisely.Originally posted by vince69:here is the full Quotation
THERE ARE those who scoff at the schoolboy, yet it was the schoolboy who said "Faith is believing what you know isn't so." - Mark Twain
Well actually it is:
"There are those who scoff at the schoolboy, calling him frivolous and shallow: Yet it was the schoolboy who said "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."" -
I guess some people have become so good at lying to themselves that God does not exists, they have no qualms bearing false witness. What did I say about science?
"We do not throw away science text books because we understand that man is finite; incomplete; inconsequential; impermanent."
How some people can say "throw away" when I said "do not throw away" is amazing. I guess now we know where his God does not exists come from! -
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so until you are Born Again, then you know it is so!"Originally posted by gssq:Precisely.
Well actually it is:
"There are those who scoff at the schoolboy, calling him frivolous and shallow: Yet it was the schoolboy who said "Faith is believing what you know ain't so.""
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I am puzzled at the string of non-sequiturs. If I might reformulate the line:Originally posted by casino_king:I guess some people have become so good at lying to themselves that God does not exists, they have no qualms bearing false witness. What did I say about science?
"We do not throw away science text books because we understand that man is finite; incomplete; inconsequential; impermanent."
How some people can say "throw away" when I said "do not throw away" is amazing. I guess now we know where his God does not exists come from!
"I guess some people have become so good at lying to themselves that gods exist, they have no qualms bearing false witness. What did I say about faith?"
Bland assertion does not an argument make.Originally posted by casino_king:
"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance... logic can be happily tossed out the window." - Stephen King
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so [b]until you are Born Again, then you know it is so!" [/b] -
Since he is willing to bear false witness, how do we know he does not believe God exists? How do we know he did not lie to himself?Originally posted by gssq:I am puzzled at the string of non-sequiturs. If I might reformulate the line:
"I guess some people have become so good at lying to themselves that gods exist, they have no qualms bearing false witness. What did I say about faith?"
Bland assertion does not an argument make.
Besides "logic" there are "experiences" and "reality." "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" The operative word here is "know," not "understand." No matter how logical a child is, he will never "know" sex.Originally posted by gssq:"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance... logic can be happily tossed out the window." - Stephen King -
Originally posted by stupidissmart 29 June 2006 · 07:12 PM:Do u by any means go to a hotel room recently and ask people to call u god ?
U sound more and more closer to insanity by telling people to throw away scientific knowledge Originally posted by casino_king 29 June 2006 · 06:59 PM:"We do not throw away science text books because we understand that man is finite; incomplete; inconsequential; impermanent.";