Need some clarifications / advice from Christians
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You have Faith in God to kick start a relationship wth God. Under certain conditions, God gives you a Spirit to enable you to know God directly. This is call Born Again, Born of Spirit.Originally posted by davidche:have to tell u this, stop emphasizing to have faith in God, it may mislead other ppl thinking that things can drop form the sky as long as one has faith. Is it true that as long as u believe and have faith, everything wld be wad u wanted?? wld appreciate if u answer me. thx
To the question : "as long as u believe and have faith, everything wld be wad u wanted?"
The answer is "No."
If you think that you already know why the answer is no, we shall leave it as it is. -
To the question : "as long as u believe and have faith, everything wld be wad u wanted?"
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
The answer is "No."
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." -
According to the will of God. According to the purposes of God. Why "you?" Why not "God?"Originally posted by gssq:"Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." -
According to the will of God. According to the purposes of God. Why "you?" Why not "God?"
I love all these qualifications.
Where does it say it's according to your god's will and purposes? -
here!Originally posted by gssq:I love all these qualifications.
Where does it say it's according to your god's will and purposes?
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lol , ya and it doesnt need to be said if God is God, if everything is according to ur will whenever u pray, then God is not God.............
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come home already hah.... no CCA?Originally posted by davidche:lol , ya and it doesnt need to be said if God is God, if everything is according to ur will whenever u pray, then God is not God.............
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i still at workOriginally posted by Chin Eng:come home already hah.... no CCA? 
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who you kidding? you working meh? still holiday right! so your next term is August?Originally posted by laoda99:i still at work -
serious...me workingOriginally posted by Chin Eng:who you kidding? you working meh? still holiday right! so your next term is August?
yeah sch starting august -
temping ar?Originally posted by laoda99:serious...me working
yeah sch starting august -
I replied but there was an error msg and so I replied again and the same error msg came out... so don't blame me if you get 2 or if you get zero replies.Originally posted by laoda99:serious...me working
yeah sch starting august -
Originally posted by casino_king:I replied but there was an error msg and so I replied again and the same error msg came out... so don't blame me if you get 2 or if you get zero replies.
ksm -
yeah!!!Originally posted by Chin Eng:temping ar? -
i sent him a pm to ask him how he get rich and can surf sgforums whole dayOriginally posted by Chin Eng: ksm
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From the passage that you quoted the qualifications are not there. Jesus did not put in these qualifications.Originally posted by gssq:I love all these qualifications.
Where does it say it's according to your god's will and purposes?
You read the passage again, you will see that it was not for general public consumption but for his disciples.
Another curious thing... how is it that Jesus' dsciples were surprised? They have been with Him for a long time by then. They would have seen the miracles Jesus did and yet they marveled. They marveled because they were men, like you and me. They were not God and they knew it.
Do you think that God would give such powers to just anybody to do anything that they want with it?
Jesus' disciples past and present would be able to understand the purpose of the powers.
This is Jesus' encouragement for His disciples past and present. Jesus' disciples past and present understand that they are alive to do the will of God. Yet they do the will of God as a man, not a god.
For them to carry out the will of God in their lives, not only:
"Even as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil... but everything that I ask of God; it shall be done." -
Ahh, context. With context you can make what is commonly understood to mean one thing mean something else. How do we know what is for general public consumption and what is for disciples? How do we know if Ephesians was directed only at Ephesians and not at people for all time? How can we arbitrarily decide that a certain verse is timeless and another is specific and context-dependent? Is it only when we need to engage in post-hoc justification.Originally posted by casino_king:You read the passage again, you will see that it was not for general public consumption but for his disciples.
Another curious thing... How is it Jesus' parents were surprised when he went into the temple to lecture people (Luke 2:41-52)? I thought they knew he was the Son of God. Hmm.Originally posted by casino_king:Another curious thing... how is it that Jesus' dsciples were surprised? They have been with Him for a long time by then. They would have seen the miracles Jesus did and yet they marveled. They marveled because they were men, like you and me. They were not God and they knew it.
"Whatever you pray for will come true, but only if it's what God wills". Right.Originally posted by casino_king:This is Jesus' encouragement for His disciples past and present. Jesus' disciples past and present understand that they are alive to do the will of God. Yet they do the will of God as a man, not a god.
For them to carry out the will of God in their lives
Whatever you ask me to do, I will do, but only if I want to do it. -
Wth. Can't read Chinese lah, esp fan ti zhi.Originally posted by Icemoon:here!
http://i5.tinypic.com/15zkweu.gif[/img]
Well, then obviously there's a contradiction in there, no?Originally posted by davidche:lol , ya and it doesnt need to be said if God is God, if everything is according to ur will whenever u pray, then God is not God............. -
That's the Pater Noster in Chinese!!!Originally posted by Icemoon:here!
I only know the modern version. -
:Originally posted by casino_king:
You read the passage again, you will see that it was not for general public consumption but for his disciples.[/quote]Originally posted by gssq:
Ahh, context. With context you can make what is commonly understood to mean one thing mean something else. How do we know what is for general public consumption and what is for disciples? How do we know if Ephesians was directed only at Ephesians and not at people for all time? How can we arbitrarily decide that a certain verse is timeless and another is specific and context-dependent? Is it only when we need to engage in post-hoc justification.
Common sense; spiritual discernment; guidance from God. The bible is an exegesis of believers' experiences of God over time. The "bible" is continually written in the lives of Children of God even today. Those who are of God would be able to interprete it.:Originally posted by casino_king:
Another curious thing... how is it that Jesus' dsciples were surprised? They have been with Him for a long time by then. They would have seen the miracles Jesus did and yet they marveled. They marveled because they were men, like you and me. They were not God and they knew it.Originally posted by gssq:
Another curious thing... How is it Jesus' parents were surprised when he went into the temple to lecture people (Luke 2:41-52)? I thought they knew he was the Son of God. Hmm.
When they looked at Jesus, they saw a man. When you look at someone Born of the Spirit, you see a man. Jesus could have made mountains jump up and down and say to the Jews (and His parents) bow down and Worship the Son of God!
Jesus could have struck anyone who did not believe Him dead on the spot. Jesus was restrained, Jesus was personal, Jesus was one to one. People came to Jesus willingly and of their own accord. Jesus set the example of how God deals with man.
You want to know God? You have to come to God... come in total humility and surrender some more... !:Originally posted by casino_king:
[quote]Originally posted by gssq:
This is Jesus' encouragement for His disciples past and present. Jesus' disciples past and present understand that they are alive to do the will of God. Yet they do the will of God as a man, not a god. For them to carry out the will of God in their lives
"Whatever you pray for will come true, but only if it's what God wills". Right.
Whatever you ask me to do, I will do, but only if I want to do it.
When God asks His children to do His work, He does not force them. They can say no. They use their human (not supernatural) strenght and intelligence. Only under special circumstances where their human abilities fails and divine help is required, would God intervene.
So you see, even when they are doing the will of God in their lives, it is through their own human abilities. Jesus had given them a lesson that God's intevention is there when they need it. Children of God understand this. You will not.
If God uses supernatural and divine intervention, why use human proxies? Why use His children? Why use me? Why not just go on TV and make an announcement?
That would reduce you to the status of an animal with no chance of being Born Again; Born of the Spirit. -
erm...ok.....one word---wadever...
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Everyone's common sense, spiritual discernment and guidance from God is different. People's interpretation of the Bible is guided by their pre-existing prejudices. Homophobes find that the Bible says gays will burn in hell. Gays find that the Bible preaches love. Abortion clinic bombers similarly find justification inside for themselves.Originally posted by casino_king:Common sense; spiritual discernment; guidance from God. The bible is an exegesis of believers' experiences of God over time. The "bible" is continually written in the lives of Children of God even today. Those who are of God would be able to interprete it.
"God says" = "I say"
That's irrelevant. I mean why were his parents surprised when they knew he was the Son of God?Originally posted by casino_king:When they looked at Jesus, they saw a man. When you look at someone Born of the Spirit, you see a man. Jesus could have made mountains jump up and down and say to the Jews (and His parents) bow down and Worship the Son of God!
And if I see and only see a man, you can't fault me for not recognising him as the Son of God.
"Suppose, however, that God did give this law to the Jews, and did tell them that whenever a man preached a heresy, or proposed to worship any other God that they should kill him; and suppose that afterward this same God took upon himself flesh, and came to this very chosen people and taught a different religion, and that thereupon the Jews crucified him; I ask you, did he not reap exactly what he had sown? What right would this god have to complain of a crucifixion suffered in accordance with his own command?" - Robert G. Ingersoll
And what about all the people who "come in total humility" and "surrender" but don't find your god? Have you considered that maybe you're looking at the wrong place? Have you "come in total humility" and surrendered to Allah, Brahma, Buddha, Zeus, Amon-Ra, Pele, Kim Jong Il, Quetzalcoatl, Odin, Zarathrustra, Anshar, that big tree over there and the Tooth Fairy?Originally posted by casino_king:You want to know God? You have to come to God... come in total humility and surrender some more... !
What does that have to do with "Pray for what I want and I'll do it"?Originally posted by casino_king:When God asks His children to do His work, He does not force them. -
quote:Originally posted by casino_king:
Common sense; spiritual discernment; guidance from God. The bible is an exegesis of believers' experiences of God over time. The "bible" is continually written in the lives of Children of God even today. Those who are of God would be able to interprete it.Originally posted by gssq:
That is why you must be Born Again. There is no point for you to lie to yourself. That is the beauty of Jesus' teaching. That is the beauty of God's way. It is a personal one on one you and Him relationship.
Everyone's common sense, spiritual discernment and guidance from God is different. People's interpretation of the Bible is guided by their pre-existing prejudices. Homophobes find that the Bible says gays will burn in hell. Gays find that the Bible preaches love. Abortion clinic bombers similarly find justification inside for themselves.
"God says" = "I say"
I can tell you that God does not condemn the Homosexuals in the same way as God does not condemn the prostitute in the same way as God does not condemn your sins, your white lies.
God is simply waiting for you to come to Him. If you are sin conscious, remember that Jesus had paid the price for you and just come to God and be Born Again. There is no point for you to lie to yourself.Originally posted by casino_king:
When they looked at Jesus, they saw a man. When you look at someone Born of the Spirit, you see a man. Jesus could have made mountains jump up and down and say to the Jews (and His parents) bow down and Worship the Son of God!Originally posted by gssq:
The Ten Commandments
That's irrelevant. I mean why were his parents surprised when they knew he was the Son of God? And if I see and only see a man, you can't fault me for not recognising him as the Son of God.
"Suppose, however, that God did give this law to the Jews, and did tell them that whenever a man preached a heresy, or proposed to worship any other God that they should kill him; and suppose that afterward this same God took upon himself flesh, and came to this very chosen people and taught a different religion, and that thereupon the Jews crucified him; I ask you, did he not reap exactly what he had sown? What right would this god have to complain of a crucifixion suffered in accordance with his own command?" - Robert G. Ingersoll
Deut. 5.1-21
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 ¶ I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 ¶ Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 ¶ Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: Ex. 34.17 · Lev. 19.4 ; 26.1 · Deut. 4.15-18 ; 27.15 for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Ex. 34.6, 7 · Num. 14.18 · Deut. 7.9, 10
7 ¶ Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: Lev. 19.12 for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 ¶ Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Ex. 16.23-30 ; 31.12-14
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, Ex. 23.12 ; 31.15 ; 34.21 ; 35.2 · Lev. 23.3 thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Gen. 2.1-3 · Ex. 31.17
12 ¶ Honor thy father and thy mother: Deut. 27.16 · Mt. 15.4 ; 19.19 · Mk. 7.10 ; 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Eph. 6.2 that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Eph. 6.3
13 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
14 ¶ Thou shalt not commit adultery. Lev. 20.10 · Mt. 5.27 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
15 ¶ Thou shalt not steal. Lev. 19.11 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9
16 ¶ Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Ex. 23.1 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20
17 ¶ Thou shalt not covet Rom. 7.7 ; 13.9 thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.
So are you now going to tell me that because God did not give you evidence of His existence, you are free not to put your Faith in God? That is your perogative, God is not going to force you otherwise God will have to turn you into an animal.
Why is it that I can put my Faith in God and you cannot? I am a man and you are a man.Originally posted by casino_king:
You want to know God? You have to come to God... come in total humility and surrender some more... !Originally posted by gssq:
I cannot judge others, I am not God. I can only tell you what I know and what I understand from my own relationship with God.
And what about all the people who "come in total humility" and "surrender" but don't find your god? Have you considered that maybe you're looking at the wrong place? Have you "come in total humility" and surrendered to Allah, Brahma, Buddha, Zeus, Amon-Ra, Pele, Kim Jong Il, Quetzalcoatl, Odin, Zarathrustra, Anshar, that big tree over there and the Tooth Fairy?
I can tell you this though, from my experience before I was Born Again; that if you say something like "Brahma" or "Tooth Fairy" you are automatically arrogant for you have a concept of God that you are comfortable with and that is idolatry. Idolatry speaks of man's arrogance. That he is higher than God. That he can come only to a God he understands.
The Jews on the other hand, knows that there is one God but what did they do? The try to please God by using their own strenght and abilities and not by simply having Faith in God. Arrogance again.Originally posted by casino_king:
When God asks His children to do His work, He does not force them.Originally posted by gssq:
Everything. Like if God ask His beloved to go against a scary person or situation or authority... he is reminded of Jesus' words...
What does that have to do with "Pray for what I want and I'll do it"?
Just remember that Being Born Again does not turn you into God. -
You're not getting it. If you are born again, and someone else is born again, but your god is telling both of you contradictory things - how?Originally posted by casino_king:That is why you must be Born Again. There is no point for you to lie to yourself. That is the beauty of Jesus' teaching. That is the beauty of God's way. It is a personal one on one you and Him relationship.
Other born again people would disagree.Originally posted by casino_king:I can tell you that God does not condemn the Homosexuals in the same way as God does not condemn the prostitute in the same way as God does not condemn your sins, your white lies.
There's also no point lying to yourself if you can't perceive this god.Originally posted by casino_king:God is simply waiting for you to come to Him. If you are sin conscious, remember that Jesus had paid the price for you and just come to God and be Born Again. There is no point for you to lie to yourself.
Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.Originally posted by casino_king:13 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11
Lev 20:13 -16 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.
And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Need any more? -
If your god doesn't want to show himself, there's nothing I can do right?Originally posted by casino_king:So are you now going to tell me that because God did not give you evidence of His existence, you are free not to put your Faith in God? That is your perogative, God is not going to force you otherwise God will have to turn you into an animal.
If I jump off a bridge does that mean you should jump off a bridge also?Originally posted by casino_king:Why is it that I can put my Faith in God and you cannot? I am a man and you are a man.
"Why is it that I can jump off a bridge you cannot? I am a man and you are a man."
So those of other religions are arrogant? I won't report you for sedition but let's hope others aren't as idiotic as FundieP.Originally posted by casino_king:if you say something like "Brahma" or "Tooth Fairy" you are automatically arrogant for you have a concept of God that you are comfortable with and that is idolatry. Idolatry speaks of man's arrogance. That he is higher than God. That he can come only to a God he understands.
One man's god is another man's idol. One man's delusion is another man's god.
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts
???Originally posted by casino_king:The Jews on the other hand, knows that there is one God but what did they do? The try to please God by using their own strenght and abilities and not by simply having Faith in God. Arrogance again.