Some questions from Roman Catholics...
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
What jews vs gentiles ? Are you jewish or are you gentile ?
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Originally posted by vince69:
Icemoon, I give you a present, John 4, After Jesus' talk with the Samaritian woman, she believed, and because of her testimonies, many other Samaritians also believed, and He stays with them 2 days.
NOTE: Samaritians are not Jews.
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Oh yea .. you 'd be surprised how I can wrangle myself out of this predicament.
You conveniently leave out verses 11 and 12 - "Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?" (in my NRSV, 'father' is translated as 'ancestor')
So are Samaritians descended from Abraham? From Isaac? From Jacob?
If you want to play technicality, then I lose. But my original argument has to do with jews vs. gentiles.
For more information, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans
By the way, there is the Samaritan Pentateuch which is arguably closer to the Septuagint than the Masoretic Text:
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There are important differences between the Hebrew and the Samaritan copies of the Pentateuch in the readings of many sentences. In about two thousand instances in which the Samaritan and the Jewish texts (Masoretic text) differ, the Septuagint (LXX) agrees with the former. For example, Exodus 12:40 in the Samaritan and the LXX reads, "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel and of their fathers which they had dwelt in the land of Canaan and in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years." In the Masoretic text, however, the same passage reads, "Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years." The New Testament, when quoting from the Old Testament, agrees as a rule with the Samaritan text, where that differs from the Masoretic text.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_Pentateuch
So the Samaritan Pentateuch is definitely not heretical by any standard. Hence I have pre-empted anyone from using the Muslims-and-Jews-also-children-of-Abraham argument as a counter-point.
I hope I have destroyed your present. [/b]
How do you define a jew then?Have you undergone bar mitzvah? Do you eat Kosher food? Can you recite the Torah? Can you speak Hebrew and understand the rabbis in the siddur when they say the prayers in aramaic?
Of course we can use your quote of a samaritan who is a descendent of Jacob - read 21 and onwards but they are by blood lines hebrews in part. Can't be a jew unless you are born of a jewish aka Hebrew mother - that birthright according to the halakha you will be a jew.
Of course we can talk conversion which is very very hard - however how many factions of jews (except maybe the progressive ones ) would recognise you as a jew if you don't have that right by birth? Only if you marry a jewish woman then your child will be recognised as a jew but you - hard to say. -
I also dunnoOriginally posted by Chin Eng:strange as it may sound, but I don't know what you mean.... -
Good luck , the kabbalah is not any easier than the bible. Go learn aramaic and read the dead sea scrolls - that might be better.Originally posted by Icemoon:After tons of replies .. I've decided to study the Kabbalah .. easier to understand.
Kabbalah is philosophy of the Torah - just like the doctrines of Christianity. If you think Kabbalah is easy .....go ask a rabbi. -
I am not judging you - I am giving you constructive criticism aka Feedback. Like I said you are free to disagree with respect shown to others whose beliefs don't run along with yours. God gave us the free will and that free will has to be used responsibly.Originally posted by breytonhartge:What I am getting at is that we worship YAHWEH, not allah, that is not the God of Abraham, nor is allah the God of Moshe.
Whilst religions preach similar moral values, from a "christian" viewpoint, only one thing will guarantee you your salvation, belief in YAHSHUA and thus having a personal relationship with YAHWEH.
Does it mean that because I do not agree with you, I am judging you? So now you are also judging me....
I know God has many names but there can be no other than that ONE TRUE GOD - the God who freed the israelites from Egypt and the God who gave Moses and his people the ten commandments , the God who is and always will be the almighty creator - Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh - I am Who I am . The same God who protected Hagar and her son Ishmael. There can only be one God - well he has many names no doubt.
The Quran also is similar to the torah and the bible in terms of its content in some areas such as Ibrahim ( aka Abraham) , Ismail (Ishmael) etc . Go read it . You just never know who Abraham's other descendents are besides the 12 tribes of Israel. What happened then to Ishmael's descendents for in the bible - God told Hagar that her son will also have many descendents just as God had promised Abraham. Who is to say Allah is not the same God whom the jews and christians believe in? It is like you knowing one of God's many names - YHVH. And I knowing him as the supreme creator of heaven and earth .
God is not for anyone to understand , God is the almighty while we are just merely his creations. God commands and we obey. God can be wrathful yet compassionate. -
I dun understand why some Christians (probably only the fundies) have difficulty understanding who Allah is, just because the Muslims use moon, crescent and star symbols.
Early Christians also have a lot of symbols. How come we dun call ourselves pagans?
If you check back the old testament, you will find the root of Muslims. -
Ah well....life is life .Originally posted by Honeybunz:I dun understand why some Christians (probably only the fundies) have difficulty understanding who Allah is, just because the Muslims use moon, crescent and star symbols.
Early Christians also have a lot of symbols. How come we dun call ourselves pagans?
If you check back the old testament, you will find the root of Muslims.
We simple humans need some symbols like names , road signs etc , to identify things .
However fundamentalists ....they are what I call over-enthusiatic urm beyond reasoning type . Fanatics are just fundamentalists who become so over-enthusiatic that they became obssessed and sometimes possessed in their views. -
Originally posted by casino_king:Just don't preach properity OK? Jesus told the young man to sell all he had, give to the poor and follow Him.
KSM ! ~~~~~ !!!! -
I don't consider your feedback constructive at all. You like me have your own agendas and your own opinions to put forth, what you call feedback I call criticism. Just as much as you have an opinion and call it feedback, then I too can have an opinion and call that feedback too. You say that I can disagree respectfully, but if you reread your original post, you were anything but respectful in your disagreement with me. So please do not be the pot calling the kettle black.Originally posted by fymk:I am not judging you - I am giving you constructive criticism aka Feedback. Like I said you are free to disagree with respect shown to others whose beliefs don't run along with yours. God gave us the free will and that free will has to be used responsibly.
I know God has many names but there can be no other than that ONE TRUE GOD - the God who freed the israelites from Egypt and the God who gave Moses and his people the ten commandments , the God who is and always will be the almighty creator - Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh - I am Who I am . The same God who protected Hagar and her son Ishmael. There can only be one God - well he has many names no doubt.
The Quran also is similar to the torah and the bible in terms of its content in some areas such as Ibrahim ( aka Abraham) , Ismail (Ishmael) etc . Go read it . You just never know who Abraham's other descendents are besides the 12 tribes of Israel. What happened then to Ishmael's descendents for in the bible - God told Hagar that her son will also have many descendents just as God had promised Abraham. Who is to say Allah is not the same God whom the jews and christians believe in? It is like you knowing one of God's many names - YHVH. And I knowing him as the supreme creator of heaven and earth .
God is not for anyone to understand , God is the almighty while we are just merely his creations. God commands and we obey. God can be wrathful yet compassionate.
Whilst Yahweh has many names, allah is MOST DEFINITELY not one of them.
The quran is similar but is not the TORAH it is only an imitation. What happens to Ishmael is not important as the promise was given to be fulfilled through Isaac.
If God is not for anyone to understand, then why does it say in the bible
Psalm 119:104
Through Your precepts I get understanding;Therefore I hate every false way.
Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;A good understanding have all those who do His commandments.His praise endures forever.
Proverbs 2:6
For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
Proverbs 4:5
Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth.
Proverbs 9:10
“ The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. -
Who do you think I am?Originally posted by fymk:What jews vs gentiles ? Are you jewish or are you gentile ?
How do you define a jew then?Have you undergone bar mitzvah? Do you eat Kosher food? Can you recite the Torah? Can you speak Hebrew and understand the rabbis in the siddur when they say the prayers in aramaic?
Of course we can use your quote of a samaritan who is a descendent of Jacob - read 21 and onwards but they are by blood lines hebrews in part. Can't be a jew unless you are born of a jewish aka Hebrew mother - that birthright according to the halakha you will be a jew.
Of course we can talk conversion which is very very hard - however how many factions of jews (except maybe the progressive ones ) would recognise you as a jew if you don't have that right by birth? Only if you marry a jewish woman then your child will be recognised as a jew but you - hard to say.
what does the sentence in red mean? -
At least Qabala lets you into esoteric knowledge and is closer to modern science (quantum mechanics) than most of us would realize.Originally posted by fymk:Good luck , the kabbalah is not any easier than the bible. Go learn aramaic and read the dead sea scrolls - that might be better.
Kabbalah is philosophy of the Torah - just like the doctrines of Christianity. If you think Kabbalah is easy .....go ask a rabbi.
I compare the commentaries from Qabala and Talmud on Creation .. woo .. they make more sense than the explanation given by creationists/fundies.
And the Qabala and Talmud were written before advent of modern science. -
I dun think breyton is a fundie....Originally posted by Honeybunz:I dun understand why some Christians (probably only the fundies) have difficulty understanding who Allah is, just because the Muslims use moon, crescent and star symbols.
Early Christians also have a lot of symbols. How come we dun call ourselves pagans?
If you check back the old testament, you will find the root of Muslims. -
Yah, I don't think breyton is a fundie. He is consistent and ok to me. And his views aren't heretical like CK.Originally posted by laoda99:I dun think breyton is a fundie....
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Ck is not a heretic. A heretic is a wayward Christian.Originally posted by Icemoon:Yah, I don't think breyton is a fundie. He is consistent and ok to me. And his views aren't heretical like CK.
CK is a New Ager. -
Woo .. I didn't know the God of Jews and Christians promise virgins until I read the Quran.Originally posted by fymk:The Quran also is similar to the torah and the bible in terms of its content in some areas such as Ibrahim ( aka Abraham) , Ismail (Ishmael) etc . Go read it . You just never know who Abraham's other descendents are besides the 12 tribes of Israel. What happened then to Ishmael's descendents for in the bible - God told Hagar that her son will also have many descendents just as God had promised Abraham. Who is to say Allah is not the same God whom the jews and christians believe in? It is like you knowing one of God's many names - YHVH. And I knowing him as the supreme creator of heaven and earth .
You just opened the flood gate to heresy. Are you worshipping the God of Mormon and JW? -
He might be New Ager but his stand is surely more biblical than Shady.Originally posted by laoda99:Ck is not a heretic. A heretic is a wayward Christian.
CK is a New Ager. -
ya.. he's consistently fundie to me.Originally posted by Icemoon:Yah, I don't think breyton is a fundie. He is consistent and ok to me. And his views aren't heretical like CK. -
BPs are fundies.Originally posted by Honeybunz:ya.. he's consistently fundie to me.
Brey is jewish. -
Define new ager.Originally posted by laoda99:Ck is not a heretic. A heretic is a wayward Christian.
CK is a New Ager. -
/me chokeOriginally posted by laoda99:BPs are fundies.
Brey is jewish. -
New ager=born of unknown spiritOriginally posted by Honeybunz:Define new ager. -
well there are many forms of unclean spirits as well.
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The word "YHWH", the name of God in Hebrew, is translated as "I am that I am" and stands for the most sacred and unpronounceable name of God.
When you put you faith in God; you have to put your Faith in " "YHWH", the name of God in Hebrew, that is translated as "I am that I am" and stands for the most sacred and unpronounceable name of God."
All other names are idols, yes a conception that is limited by time and space and man's experience.
When you call out to " "YHWH", the name of God in Hebrew, is translated as "I am that I am" and stands for the most sacred and unpronounceable name of God."
No evil spirit will dare come near you.
Becareful that you do not blaspheme "" "YHWH", the name of God in Hebrew, that is translated as "I am that I am" and stands for the most sacred and unpronounceable name of God."
Anyway it is understandable that people not yet Born Again will blaspheme God because they are still idolators. -
I suspect it's because both of you are pro-Jews.....Originally posted by Icemoon:Yah, I don't think breyton is a fundie. He is consistent and ok to me. And his views aren't heretical like CK. -
unker,Originally posted by Chin Eng:I suspect it's because both of you are pro-Jews.....
you may want to explain what is pro-Jews for the benefits of those here wh is very lost on this term.
Thanks -
Something for you to chew on before I disappear for the next few days.
How does one call on "" "YHWH", the name of God in Hebrew, that is translated as "I am that I am" and stands for the most sacred and unpronounceable name of God."