The Christian message in Da Vinci Code
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You mean Dragon Prince?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If the Apostles were the princes of the Catholic Church, and Peter their leader...
How is he not the leader of the Catholic Church?
Sorry .. election fever still burning .. 
As recorded in Acts and Galatians, Peter wasn't a "leader" by any standards. Has he shown exceptional leadership? Or he just kan4 feng1 shi3 duo4?
And most importantly, the NT is about Jesus and Paul. All the bright ideas came from Paul. Peter was just playing second fiddle.
Unless you admit Peter is the chairman and James the CEO? And all the apostles are directors. -
Should be Jews. Because:Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:In the Gospels, the Apostles were not called Christians. So are they Christians or Jews?
1. None of them believed in the death and resurrection of Christ.
2. I bet they were quite clueless about the Trinity as well.
3. They followed Jewish traditions. -
1) the Apostles does not consider themselves princes of the Catholic Church, for one, Paul never consider himself a prince, this title was not mentioned in the Bible. In fact they called themselves servants of Christ.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If the Apostles were the princes of the Catholic Church, and Peter their leader...
How is he not the leader of the Catholic Church?
In the Gospels, the Apostles were not called Christians. So are they Christians or Jews?
2) Yes, in the gospels until Acts 11, they are also called the followers, disciples, believers...etc, the title Christians first appear in Acts 11
Acts 11:25-26
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. -
By the way, I just found out, Peter is regarded in Roman Catholic tradition as the first bishop of Antioch?
Lucky Peter went to Rome after that. Or papacy might not be justified and Vatican City will be in Antioch today. -
From what I noted in the book of Acts, the initial council of elders (ie. mainly consists of the apostles) overseas the affairs of the church in Jersalem.Originally posted by Icemoon:You mean Dragon Prince? Sorry .. election fever still burning ..
As recorded in Acts and Galatians, Peter wasn't a "leader" by any standards. Pray, tell me, how has he shown any leadership? This "leader" swayed here and there, he was more like a puppet.
Unless you admit Peter is the chairman and James the CEO? And all the apostles are directors.
and as usual, we see Peter being the more vocal one among them.
but we also cannot denial that Peter was used mightily by the Lord.
example during Pentecost (Acts 2) when the Holy Spirit was first introduced to the Disciples, at Cornelius house (Acts 10) when the Holy Spirit was first also sent to the Gentile Believers ...etc
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this is the 1st time i hear soeone mention Paul is a bishop.......are you sure your info is correct?Originally posted by Icemoon:By the way, I just found out, Peter is regarded in Roman Catholic tradition as the first bishop of Antioch?
Lucky Peter went to Rome after that. Or papacy might not be justified and Vatican City will be in Antioch today.
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Paul was never a bishop. He was a missionary!Originally posted by duotiga83:this is the 1st time i hear soeone mention Paul is a bishop.......are you sure your info is correct? -
These are in accrodance to Church traditions teaching (not found in the Bible), so we can only relied on Church records.Originally posted by Icemoon:By the way, I just found out, Peter is regarded in Roman Catholic tradition as the first bishop of Antioch?
Lucky Peter went to Rome after that. Or papacy might not be justified and Vatican City will be in Antioch today.
Other sources would be the Historical records written by the Jewish historian Josephus, who wrote most of his works in Rome (have to read them again) -
i duno about u lot but im anticipating a blockbuster hit when the movie comes out.
the storyline alone would be a tremendous waste if its never shown on the silver screen. hopefully i'll be there to catch the premier!
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Icemoon is talking about Peter, not PaulOriginally posted by duotiga83:this is the 1st time i hear soeone mention Paul is a bishop.......are you sure your info is correct? -
I don't dispute the importance of Peter but the same can be said of John (blessed by the Lord to see the endtimes) and Paul (who contributed most of the theology).Originally posted by vince69:From what I noted in the book of Acts, the initial council of elders (ie. mainly consists of the apostles) overseas the affairs of the church in Jersalem.
and as usual, we see Peter being the more vocal one among them.
but we also cannot denial that Peter was used mightily by the Lord.
example during Pentecost (Acts 2) when the Holy Spirit was first introduced to the Disciples, at Cornelius house (Acts 10) when the Holy Spirit was first also sent to the Gentile Believers ...etc
I agree that the council of elders oversees the affairs of the church. Sounds like Jedi Council heh? But pls lah .. Peter is way inferior compared to the leadership shown by Yoda and Mace Windu.
if you ask me, I think Jesus gave Paul the keys. Here are my reasonings:
1. God often use the most unexpected person for the job. He chooses people we least expected. Do you think God choose the "Prince Regent" or the "Christian Hater"?
2. Paul gave the world Christianity's central tenets. Grace! Justification! These are the real "keys" to the Kingdom!
3. Paul was a missionary while Peter mostly eye-power. Jesus told his disciples to spread the Word to all nations. Peter was only successful with the Jews. Paul gave Christ to the gentiles.
Sorry if they are a bit lame ..
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not lame... you have your own style thats all.Originally posted by Icemoon:I don't dispute the importance of Peter but the same can be said of John (blessed by the Lord to see the endtimes) and Paul (who contributed most of the theology).
I agree that the council of elders oversees the affairs of the church. Sounds like Jedi Council heh? But pls lah .. Peter is way inferior compared to the leadership shown by Yoda and Mace Windu.
I feel that the Apostles truely know who the Head of Church is, and this is Jesus Christ, our Lord, that's why like Paul said, they are merely the servants of the Lord (ie. Christ)
if you ask me, I think Jesus gave Paul the keys. Here are my reasonings:
1. God often use the most unexpected person for the job. He chooses people we least expected. Do you think God choose the "Prince Regent" or the "Christian Hater"?
both have different job scope
2. Paul gave the world Christianity's central tenets. Grace! Justification! These are the real "keys" to the Kingdom!
No, Christ did, Paul only reilterate what Jesus had shown him
3. Paul was a missionary while Peter mostly eye-power. Jesus told his disciples to spread the Word to all nations. Peter was only successful with the Jews. Paul gave Christ to the gentiles.
both are elders in the Church, but even elders have different roles.
Sorry if they are a bit lame .. -
I have no problem with the argument that Jesus is the key.
I was just trying to show if we die die need someone to be the earthly leader, then Paul would be a better candidate.
Paul epitomized what a Christian leader should be - dare to preach the faith, stand steadfast to the faith, go around preach the faith etc.
It is no surprise what Paul had preached now came out from the lips of church leaders. -
hmm...Originally posted by Icemoon:I have no problem with the argument that Jesus is the key.
I was just trying to show if we die die need someone to be the earthly leader, then Paul would be a better candidate.
Paul epitomized what a Christian leader should be - dare to preach the faith, stand steadfast to the faith, go around preach the faith etc.
It is no surprise what Paul had preached now came out from the lips of church leaders.
Paul in Gal 2:9, named James, Peter, John as the pillars, namely the key leaders of the early churches...
reason is very simple, calling
James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.
elders at time serves 2 primary functions in the early church;
1) as bishop/overseer of the church affairs, looking after the fellow believers, something like the current Pastors are doing.
2) as preacher/missionary, these are like the modern days teachers, missionaries.... etc, doing the field works kind.
so... bottom line is, there is no clear "leader of leaders" during that time, except of course, all look to Christ as the head. -
Note the order of names .. James first before Peter.
"reputed" to be pillars .. reeked of sacrasm to me.
what a big joke .. "they" go to the Jews .. as in the majority of the apostles/elders went to the Jews .. in the end what happened? -
piangz... of course, Paul also a Jew mah....Originally posted by Icemoon:Note the order of names .. James first before Peter.
"reputed" to be pillars .. reeked of sacrasm to me.
what a big joke .. "they" go to the Jews .. as in the majority of the apostles/elders went to the Jews .. in the end what happened?
err... how come only 2 of us here? sgmarcoss? and the rest???? -
Paul was the most Jewish of them all. Yet he went to the gentiles.Originally posted by vince69:piangz... of course, Paul also a Jew mah....
God really knows how to choose His servants. -
They go back find ammo box.Originally posted by vince69:err... how come only 2 of us here? sgmarcoss? and the rest????
Today EH is surprisingly quiet. Dont' they me they having some vesak day party .. -
ok... me go over to chill room, see any activity thereOriginally posted by Icemoon:They go back find ammo box.
Today EH is surprisingly quiet. Dont' they me they having some vesak day party ..
btw, how come your Forbidden City like so quiet hah? just went there, like no new topic leh...
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nothing interesting to tok about tonight leh.. not only eh gone.
other forums oso.
cept the dream in soa, which reminds me of a dream i had. -
i m here!Originally posted by vince69:ok... me go over to chill room, see any activity there
Peace! No arguments today.... -
Remember, it is the jews who rejected Christ first, then the gentiles finally have a chance....Originally posted by Icemoon:Paul was the most Jewish of them all. Yet he went to the gentiles.
God really knows how to choose His servants.
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was that god's intention from the start?Originally posted by laoda99:Remember, it is the jews who rejected Christ first, then the gentiles finally have a chance.... -
no lah, we are on Church History, sharing/discussion only (+ some crapping also)Originally posted by laoda99:i m here!
Peace! No arguments today.... -
Yup...the first church is definitely not Roman Catholic....Originally posted by vince69:A bit more on Church History
The first church is definitely not the Roman Catholic Church, the early church exist in pockets of smaller churches across the various locations/cities.
Everywhere the believers goes, they formed pockets of smaller communities which evolves into local churches.
(all these are recorded in the book of Acts).
Its only in the later years that the bigger churches started to elevate themselves above the rest of the smaller churches around them resulting in 2 main groups
The Roman Catholic Church based in Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Church based in Constantinople.