Righteousness through faith
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I see monkeys becoming parrots. I never knew it was possible.
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It does not matter who's parrot and who's monkey lah.
Everybody following this thread knows where this is going and who's being stubborn and unreasonable... so please continue to have fun lah.... -
Since you say you are a non Christian....
Just to clear up your mind. The Jews believed that the way to know God is only possible if you are a good person. It is by "works;" doing good and following the law.
Jesus came along and reminded everybody that it is by Faith and Faith alone.
But the Christian nowadays have gone back to pre Jesus times and insist that the way to know God is by being a good person.
To be considered a good person, you "believe" Jesus sacrificed himself for you. It is still the "I must be a good person to know God" Jewish beliefs with a twist; nevertheless it is the same "I must be a good person to know God."
You can see the problem immediately because every Christian continues to sin. There is also the issue of how good is good enough? During Jesus times, it was just like what you see during the Taleban rule in Afganistan. Cannot do this and that and women cannot this and that.
There is no such thing as I sin and as long as I believe in Jesus, it is OK. Try this, go and kill somebody and then say "I belive in Jesus, I believe in Jesus." You think God will come down from "heaven" and tell the judge; hey he believes in Jesus, let him go?" You will hang for sure if you get caught.
You will get your just deserts if you sin.
On the other hand don't imagine for a moment that the way to know God is by getting rid of sin (whether by following the law or believing in Jesus.) It is by Faith in God. Only people who have come to know God by faith will tel you this. In some chuches they go so far as to preach prosperity. It is selling something that people want to hear and so the church is packed. Based on what I know, it is nevertheless an abomination to God. You cannot use God's name in vain even if it is to pack people into churches. You are more blessed even if the church is as poor as a church mouse and nobody comes.
Ask the Christians here to quote you the words of Jesus explaning all the paragraphs above this one.
Justification by Faith does not refer to "no punishment for sins."
According to Jewish beliefs; you cannot come to know God unless you are "justified." You must have the qualifications. It refers to the beliefs that to know God you need to be a good person. To be a good person you must follow the LAW. To be justified, you must fufill the LAW. This is what Jesus ever so politely tried to tell the Jews is in error. They would have none of it. Did you watch Mel Gibson's The Passion of Christ? Well Jesus was willing to die horribly for his stand.
This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ; that to come to God, to know God, to have a relationship with God; to Enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.... is by Faith in God. Not by being a good person or by fufilling the law (justification by Law) but justification by Faith. Faith in God.
Jesus died a horrible death to announce His Gospel to the world and His disciples went all the way back to undo His sacrifice and preach their own gospel; you must be a good person before you can know God. Instead of you must have Faith in God before you can enter into God's Kingdom.
The term "justification ' by faith is for the Jews to understand, not for you. You only need to know that Faith is the key to enter into the kingdom of God.
So while some Christians get it, that to know God is by Faith and not by the beliefs that you must be a good person either by following the law or believing in Jesus, others think that as long as they are good people (by believing in Jesus' sacrifice) that's it. They then go about doing Christian activities and never enter into the Kingdom of God.
The Jews during Jesus times knew exactly what Jesus was trying to say and they rejected it. The Christians nowadays are just "blur." They live their lives exactly like you, a non christian, not having a relationship with God. They do a lot of Christian activities, everything except having a relationship with God. most of them as I can see anyway. Not all of them.
Simply put,
Sin will bring you your just desserts whether you believe or not; whether you know God (have a relationship with God) or not.
Faith is what you need, to come to know God and for a relationship with God.
You will notice that what I have just said does not say anything about God other than you need faith to get to know God. There is only one God. Read my previous few posts. Knowing God is entering into the kingdom of God, here and now and not after you die.
The focus of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is Faith in God. Not How to become a good person 101 and not How to become prosperous 101. The Christians in Singaporeans resort to these aims because, like Jesus said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man (meaning most Singaporeans) to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24. Similar verses are in Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25).
Do you want a relationship with God? That is entirely up to you. If you want it, want to "enter into the Kingdon of God," only Faith will get you there. So what remains is:
What is Faith in God? -
aa.. kena bumped again...
this time, not edit but REPOST!.... or am I jumping to conclusions again.
CASINO-KING WANTS A CRACKER!
so the identity of the parrot is now revealed
.... but that's all folks.... at least from me.... going to see DVC liao! -
Monkeys have so little imagination they have no idea why humans do what they do and jump up and down and finally jump to conclusions.
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Aye, Eng, don't take his bait lah. It's making the thread boliao. Just because a person is insane (and entertaining) does not mean it is right to monkey around with him. All the same I find it morally wrong to make a fool of a fool for fool's sake.
Anyway all I feel the need to raise up is that the faith described in Casinoism is quite different from the faith Christians actually believe in. Martin Luther's sola fide is quite different from Casinoism's sola fide. For indeed when Luther uttered it he uttered it for a purpose, while Casinoism's sola fide is just that, without anything to bear upon it. How this form of sola fide for sola fide's sake can ever lead to any form of morality is uncertain.
Whatever it is, it's certainly not Christian theology by any measure nor as I believe a fair and logical look at the verse he had quoted. Calvinism might be pardoned, for at least there was a logical insistence on it that lurks in the logical mind run wild. Casinoism however, starts straight from the nullity of nonsense and jumps straight into its own infinite circle, demanding that by virtue of roundness this small baseball of self-contained logic be considered the world (which it certainly is not). Any truth it might have dragged along with it simply a matter of accidents and the first principle and all rubbish at one point must come from sense.
Fustratingly however, due to his insistence of ignoring logic, I see little point in trying to prove this point to him, but rather I shall aspire to prove it to others. It may by very well in his folly he exposes the actual truth for others to see, for of course if he didn't highlight the issue it might have been ignored by others. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
yah .. we are waiting for you to tell us leh!
Do you want a relationship with God? That is entirely up to you. If you want it, want to "enter into the Kingdon of God," only Faith will get you there. So what remains is:
[b]What is Faith in God?[/b] -
Faith in God, yes, even Faith in God comes from God. Think about this for a while.Originally posted by Icemoon:yah .. we are waiting for you to tell us leh! -
i mean your question - what is faith in god.Originally posted by casino_king:Faith in God, yes, even Faith in God comes from God. Think about this for a while. -
I know, but I want you to consider the statement that Faith in God comes from God and the implications of that statement.Originally posted by Icemoon:i mean your question - what is faith in god. -
how can I think about the statement when I dun even know what the hell is Faith in God right?Originally posted by casino_king:I know, but I want you to consider the statement that Faith in God comes from God and the implications of that statement.
I know you know, but please put yourself in our shoes. I personally dunno what the hell is your Faith in God. -
You seem to have a point... let me think for a while.Originally posted by Icemoon:how can I think about the statement when I dun even know what the hell is Faith in God right?
I know you know, but please put yourself in our shoes. I personally dunno what the hell is your Faith in God. -
Thank you.Originally posted by casino_king:You seem to have a point... let me think for a while. -
How about you read this link and then think about what I said; that Faith in God comes from God? Link: What is real FAITH?Originally posted by casino_king:You seem to have a point... let me think for a while. -
Their church split over makeup?
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Maybe you prefer this link HERE? Fake Faith begins when we value the Blessings more than the Blessor; when we seek the Gifts and not the Giver; when we begin to see God as just one more marvelous resource on the way to our own personal definition of success and the Good Life.
How about you read this link and then think about what I said; that Faith in God comes from God? -
How about you Google and read anything you want about Faith in God and
then think about what I said; that Faith in God comes from God? -
I think by now you know my style. When I ask a question, I have an ideal answer in mind. I prefer not to give you the answer because frankly as far as I am concern, you have to work it out for yourself. Otherwise there will be endless bible studies and endless hearing of preaching. Do you know what the definition of preaching is? To say the same thing over and over again
Why would you want to hear the same thing over and over again?
You have to work it out for yourself. If you like, you give me your answer and I will tear it apart. If you think that you already have the answer, then there is no point having this discussion is there? Unless you are trying to help confused people to clear up their own minds.
You can ask me questions but please don't ask me back the questions I asked you in the first place. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Your approach is not new, most bible study leaders do this, leading the participants to an answer using a series of questions (I used this method alot when I am doing it)
I think by now you know my style. When I ask a question, I have an ideal answer in mind. I prefer not to give you the answer because frankly as far as I am concern, you have to work it out for yourself. Otherwise there will be endless bible studies and endless hearing of preaching. Do you know what the definition of preaching is? [b]To say the same thing over and over again
Why would you want to hear the same thing over and over again?
You have to work it out for yourself. If you like, you give me your answer and I will tear it apart. If you think that you already have the answer, then there is no point having this discussion is there? Unless you are trying to help confused people to clear up their own minds.
You can ask me questions but please don't ask me back the questions I asked you in the first place.[/b]
but the way you handle things speaks alot about your character as well as whether a meaningful discussion can take place.
1st you started with an 'ideal' set of answers, which is not wrong by itself, but by insisting that others conform to it is not only unfriutful, its unhelpful as well, unless you are saying your answer is perfect and flawless.
2nd By going around to tear others down is not the way to discuss, unless you are looking for 'mindless bootlickers' that will only sought to agree with you, this I am afraid you come to the wrong place.
3rd By calling resorting to names calling and insults when others disagree with your pre-concluded 'ideal' answer' is not only unhelpful in any discussion, its actually creates a barrier between youself and others, preventing any meaningful conversation to even take place.
If you still want a meaningful conversation/discussion, stop calling names and stop seeking to tear others that do not conform to your ideals down.
good day. -
When I say tear down; I mean ask difficult questions to challenge the answers. Maybe it is only my own perception but I ask a few more difficult questions the people here tend to become confused or unsure.Originally posted by vince69:Your approach is not new, most bible study leaders do this, leading the participants to an answer using a series of questions (I used this method alot when I am doing it)
but the way you handle things speaks alot about your character as well as whether a meaningful discussion can take place.
1st you started with an 'ideal' set of answers, which is not wrong by itself, but by insisting that others conform to it is not only unfriutful, its unhelpful as well, unless you are saying your answer is perfect and flawless.
2nd By going around to tear others down is not the way to discuss, unless you are looking for 'mindless bootlickers' that will only sought to agree with you, this I am afraid you come to the wrong place.
3rd By calling resorting to names calling and insults when others disagree with your pre-concluded 'ideal' answer' is not only unhelpful in any discussion, its actually creates a barrier between youself and others, preventing any meaningful conversation to even take place.
If you still want a meaningful conversation/discussion, stop calling names and stop seeking to tear others that do not conform to your ideals down.
good day.
Which is alright but then they quickly assume that I am out to attack them. i mean, I expect better right? If I challenge you with difficult questions, then you come back with proper answers and not assume that I am blindly attacking you right?
You go back and read all my posts, except for those I call people monkeys; where did I blindly tear down people's answers with baseless accusations?
I do the same to the Buddhists in their forums. I ask them difficult questions. Other than one or 2 individuals who just want to flame me, they tend to take my questions seriously. They do not jump to conclusion that I am blindly attacking them.
Like here, they seem to be stuck. I assume that they are trying to find the best answer. At least they don't start asking stupid meaningless questions back at me.
I don't assume that my answer is the perfect answer but I am willing to stand by it and please try to tear it apart also. This is the only way we learn right? -
I am curious to know then, what exactly do you believe in then Casino King?
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Very good question. Sorry I have to log off now. Will get back to you later.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:I am curious to know then, what exactly do you believe in then Casino King? -
Originally posted by casino_king:Very good question. Sorry I have to log off now. Will get back to you later.
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In the first place, is there a need to call people names? again a simple question for you to answerOriginally posted by casino_king:You go back and read all my posts, except for those I call people monkeys; where did I blindly tear down people's answers with baseless accusations?
Maybe there is no perfect answer for everyone....Originally posted by casino_king:I don't assume that my answer is the perfect answer but I am willing to stand by it and please try to tear it apart also. This is the only way we learn right?
Let me say that you have never been easy. You have admitted to the fact that you do not like to answer other's question, that being the case, there is no way for anyone to "tear them apart" is there?
I am glad you are learning too. That I have pushed you to admit that the issue of love has no scientific evidence, and that there are there are bodies of evidences beyond just being scientific.
If you wish to continue "learning", at least have the decency to not to call people names.
Also when people start asking you questions, all you can say, is "I am logging off" or "I will think about it" and you do not reply until you are pushed and pushed again. After that you accuse others of stalking you. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:Maybe there is no perfect answer for everyone....
Let me say that you have never been easy. You have admitted to the fact that you do not like to answer other's question, that being the case, there is no way for anyone to "tear them apart" is there?
I am glad you are learning too. That I have pushed you to admit that the issue of love has no scientific evidence, and that there are there are bodies of evidences beyond just being scientific.
If you wish to continue "learning", at least have the decency to not to call people names.
Also when people start asking you questions, all you can say, is "I am logging off" or "I will think about it" and you do not reply until you are pushed and pushed again. After that you accuse others of stalking you.
Logging off is his trademark.