Anglicans!
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Just came back from a business trip.... still kinda of zonked out....Originally posted by Icemoon:But of course .. if you find celebrating Christmas stumbling then better not celebrate.
I think Unker Eng will say the same thing. I think he mentioned this while discussing the joss stick and other touchy issues ..
Yup, Icey's got me spot on here....
.... but with regards to the various the various postulation on whether Christmas or Easter is Biblical or not, I have this to say:
Culture is alive in that in any society, we immerse the various elements of a culture into our lifelihood. In rural Shanghai, I have seen a Catholic church that looks like a Buddhist temple, right in the middle of the sanctuary there is a huge painting that looks like the Buddhist heaven, but if one is to look closely into it, one will find Jesus, the twelve apostles plus heaps of Christian imagery. So should we b-itch about the politically incorrect style? or rejoice because poor folks have a way to honor God (might not be a way that I like?) If there are supposedly paganistic imagery in our festivities, there is very little one can do right now to correct it, as if there is really a correct take on such festivities. Look at it this way: churches cannot even agree on the correct way to perform baptism, a totally Christian event. All the folks here can quote various passages from the Bible to invalidate immersion, or sprinkling, or whatever ways a church is to use. To go beyond the supposedly paganistic imagery, "Christian" festivities serves a larger purpose of a rallying point for churches to open their doors to a more receptive crowd during such festivities. At a personal level, I generally have no issues with the chronologically inaccurate dates for the festivities, I do have issues with the image of Santa Claus. My reason is simply: Santa Claus is should NOT be the reason for Christmas, Christ is. the bottom line is: to those who think that Christian festivities are overladen with pagan symbols and it affects their walk with God - don't be part of the celebration, but such folks need to understand that there is good reason to continue to do so, eg NCC's yearly collaboration with Mediacorp on their Christmas eve performance, where even Joe Prince gets up an sings a ditty or two. -
so sunday might not be the correct day..but how many people can make it on the actual day itself?Originally posted by breytonhartge:1. sunday was never the correct day to begin with.
2. like I said about christmas, the spririt behind it is wrong.
3. the significant thing is not about Christ's birth, but His death, we have victory and salvation because of His death, not His brith. I make a big deal about it not being in the bible because we are asked to obey God. Read 2 Peter for his exposition on destructive heresies and the like. The bible is our guide and not man. Christmas was created by the RC chuch.
4. if you don't get it, you don't get it. what is wrong with celebrating christmas? you celebrate a pagan festival and get caught up with all the little other things that go along with christmas, like the mistletoe, the streamers round the tree, etc... these are all parts of the pagan ritual which was normalised and in this the devil has the church deceived... and it is not celebrated on the correct day. How would you feel if someone celebrated your birthday 3 months later?
christmas is about christ coming to earth,people should know about it..because it is where his grace all started..
we are not worshipping santa claus so i doubt we 're praying to the wrong person...
to celebrate a birthday earlier or later only means u remembered it..to me, not celebrating a birthday is a sad thing..it kinda shows the insignificance of urself to others..i know god won't mind such petty stuff but if u are complaining about it becoming more of a festival den i can't help u there..
but to us,we know what we are doing..and to me myself,its a day where i find it easier to bring others to know about christ.. -
Brey,Originally posted by breytonhartge:All it comes down to here is what is more important?
1. What is more important to GOD? or
2. What is more important to us?
now that I am more awake....
1) What is more important to God?
or you can also ask what is more important to Jesus?
To heal the broken hearted, and to set the captives free. For this reason He came, suffer and died on the cross, that we, who once was lost may be able to be reconciled back with God.
2) What is more important to us?
As christians, the important thing to us is to do what the Lord do, to stand by the road side (like a road sign) point the lost to the Lord, that they too may find Him and be saved.
So be it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Christmas day, Easter, or whatever day.... If on this day/occasion, Seeds of Salvation are sown, People are saved, I will rejoice and celebrate.
This then is my stand on all these festivals
God Bless. -
Last time, when I am in Sydney, the campus church I was attending was on a Friday (Anglicans also), cause more convient for us student who is in the campus.Originally posted by stellazio:so sunday might not be the correct day..but how many people can make it on the actual day itself?
christmas is about christ coming to earth,people should know about it..because it is where his grace all started..
we are not worshipping santa claus so i doubt we 're praying to the wrong person...
to celebrate a birthday earlier or later only means u remembered it..to me, not celebrating a birthday is a sad thing..it kinda shows the insignificance of urself to others..i know god won't mind such petty stuff but if u are complaining about it becoming more of a festival den i can't help u there..
but to us,we know what we are doing..and to me myself,its a day where i find it easier to bring others to know about christ.. -
if the government were to restructure our working day which is almost impossible..i will gladly follow suit..Originally posted by vince69:Last time, when I am in Sydney, the campus church I was attending was on a Friday (Anglicans also), cause more convient for us student who is in the campus.
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restructure also no use, me on 5days week, still have to work on Saturday sometimes (sometimes even on Sunday alsoOriginally posted by stellazio:if the government were to restructure our working day which is almost impossible..i will gladly follow suit.. 
), personally my point in my post is, its really doesn't matter which day of the week, cause everyday can be and should be the Lord's day.
If must strictly follows the sabbath day, then a lot of us will be in big trouble, cause not suppose to work on this day.
Imagine, its sunday, and all the pastors and church staff are working...
more important is this, the gospel is being preach, the Lord's name is being honor, the sick being healed, the captives being released, and the lost are saved.
so long as the will of the Lord is done, does it really matters which day of the week it is? -
Sabbath, as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary is:Originally posted by stellazio:if the government were to restructure our working day which is almost impossible..i will gladly follow suit.. The seventh day of the week, Saturday, observed as the day of rest and worship by the Jews and some Christian sects.
The theological justification can be traced to the 6 day of creation plus the day of rest. The first day of the week, Sunday, observed as the day of rest and worship by most Christians.
The theological justification can be traced to the honoring of God by giving to God the best of oneself - the first born, the first crop, the first day of the week.
So pick one..... or pick Friday.... -
yep yep..i truly agree..Originally posted by vince69:restructure also no use, me on 5days week, still have to work on Saturday sometimes (sometimes even on Sunday also ), personally my point in my post is, its really doesn't matter which day of the week, cause everyday can be and should be the Lord's day.
If must strictly follows the sabbath day, then a lot of us will be in big trouble, cause not suppose to work on this day.
Imagine, its sunday, and all the pastors and church staff are working...
more important is this, the gospel is being preach, the Lord's name is being honor, the sick being healed, the captives being released, and the lost are saved. so long as the will of the Lord is done, does it really matters which day of the week it is? 
becuz the working environment last time and now is totally different..
some people i know don't even have time to go to church on sunday,but they do make their own personal time for him everynight etc.. -
ok my personal view. Christmas Day 25 Dec is Pagan.
but i do celebrate Christmas the same way i attend christian wakes and funeral.
Does singing some hymns and read scriptures at the wake enhance the reality of eternal life? NO. the bible never says we should do such things for the dead then why do it still?
i do these because these are oppournity for people to come to know Christ and His gospel proclaimed.
Christmas - a Saviour was given
Good Friday - the Saviour died
Easter (pagan name) - the Saviour rose from the grave
Funerals and wake - There is life eternal for those in Jesus Christ.
With these benchmarks i have chosen to celebrate all the above...pagan or biblical the origin. Dun let dates and day rule you because of that you are still under law. Be under grace...live under grace.
like i said before...if everything want to debate whether or not pagan...i suggest you soak urself in a chamber of anointing oil so as to keep yourself unstained by the world. -
double post
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good point!Originally posted by NT2:like i said before...if everything want to debate whether or not pagan...i suggest you soak urself in a chamber of anointing oil so as to keep yourself unstained by the world. -
also probably that's why there are church service on Thursday, Friday and Saturday as well.... so if Sunday cannot make it, can also go on another day..Originally posted by stellazio:yep yep..i truly agree..
becuz the working environment last time and now is totally different..
some people i know don't even have time to go to church on sunday,but they do make their own personal time for him everynight etc..
God bless -
thanks.Originally posted by Chin Eng:good point! -
...the problem with this point is that there will always be people who feel that it is more appropriate to follow the letter rather than the spirit of the law. The next thing that will crop up will be the the argument that the church is now being blinded by satan and that people have chosen the path of mediocrity rather than being sacrificial in one's time with God.Originally posted by vince69:also probably that's why there are church service on Thursday, Friday and Saturday as well.... so if Sunday cannot make it, can also go on another day..
God bless -
they see God like the way they see their sch discipline master.Originally posted by Chin Eng:...the problem with this point is that there will always be people who feel that it is more appropriate to follow the letter rather than the spirit of the law. The next thing that will crop up will be the the argument that the church is now being blinded by satan and that people have chosen the path of mediocrity rather than being sacrificial in one's time with God.
David and his people when hungry can eat the Consecrated Bread of Presence even though its unlawful for them to consume and only priests can. But God care for their hunger more than a piece of roti
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u sound just like my pastor in st andrew's cathedral..Originally posted by NT2:ok my personal view. Christmas Day 25 Dec is Pagan.
but i do celebrate Christmas the same way i attend christian wakes and funeral.
Does singing some hymns and read scriptures at the wake enhance the reality of eternal life? NO. the bible never says we should do such things for the dead then why do it still?
i do these because these are oppournity for people to come to know Christ and His gospel proclaimed.
Christmas - a Saviour was given
Good Friday - the Saviour died
Easter (pagan name) - the Saviour rose from the grave
Funerals and wake - There is life eternal for those in Jesus Christ.
With these benchmarks i have chosen to celebrate all the above...pagan or biblical the origin. Dun let dates and day rule you because of that you are still under law. Be under grace...live under grace.
like i said before...if everything want to debate whether or not pagan...i suggest you soak urself in a chamber of anointing oil so as to keep yourself unstained by the world.
who said that he conducts weddings and funerals in the same way and for only one purpose..which is to spread the name and love of god..
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CE,Originally posted by Chin Eng:...the problem with this point is that there will always be people who feel that it is more appropriate to follow the letter rather than the spirit of the law. The next thing that will crop up will be the the argument that the church is now being blinded by satan and that people have chosen the path of mediocrity rather than being sacrificial in one's time with God.
in regards to this, I agree with you, some does chose to follow the letter, to these, I have something for them
an example from the early church, on how often to meet in church, daily (meaning everyday)
Acts 2:46-47
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. -
After is all said and done, each of us has different levels of revelation and insight that the Lord has given us.
Now that we all have aired our views, we all can reflect on what each has said and leave it up to the Holy Spirit to guide and lead us in truth.
What is important is we keep our respective walks close to God and that we grow in the Lord everyday. Only each of us know where we stand with our Lord and we are accountable to Him.
God Bless. -
Originally posted by vince69:1) What is more important to God?
or you can also ask what is more important to Jesus?
To heal the broken hearted, and to set the captives free. For this reason He came, suffer and died on the cross, that we, who once was lost may be able to be reconciled back with God.
Very TRUE and I agree with you on this.
2) What is more important to us?
As christians, the important thing to us is to do what the Lord do, to stand by the road side (like a road sign) point the lost to the Lord, that they too may find Him and be saved.
This too I agree.
God Bless. -
We should not think of this thread as imposing the practise of one church to the others. But rather, a good opportunity for Christians from all denominations to learn from one another other each denomination reinforce what they learn from the bible.
As for observing Sabbath on Saturday, the Seventh Day Adventists do practise that and have their services on Saturdays only. If you look at the church history, the early Christians did that too.
But most Christians today go to church on Sunday instead of Saturday because Jesus rose from the death on a Sunday. The RC call it The Lord's Day, while the Prost regard Sunday as synonymous terms for the Christian day of worship.
So it's neither right or wrong for Christians to go to church on Sat or Sun. -
I know St Andrew's Cathedral had worship service on every Wednesday. Do they still have that?Originally posted by vince69:Last time, when I am in Sydney, the campus church I was attending was on a Friday (Anglicans also), cause more convient for us student who is in the campus. -
Totally agree with you.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Just came back from a business trip.... still kinda of zonked out....
Yup, Icey's got me spot on here....
.... but with regards to the various the various postulation on whether Christmas or Easter is Biblical or not, I have this to say: Culture is alive in that in any society, we immerse the various elements of a culture into our lifelihood. In rural Shanghai, I have seen a Catholic church that looks like a Buddhist temple, right in the middle of the sanctuary there is a huge painting that looks like the Buddhist heaven, but if one is to look closely into it, one will find Jesus, the twelve apostles plus heaps of Christian imagery. So should we b-itch about the politically incorrect style? or rejoice because poor folks have a way to honor God (might not be a way that I like?) If there are supposedly paganistic imagery in our festivities, there is very little one can do right now to correct it, as if there is really a correct take on such festivities. Look at it this way: churches cannot even agree on the correct way to perform baptism, a totally Christian event. All the folks here can quote various passages from the Bible to invalidate immersion, or sprinkling, or whatever ways a church is to use. To go beyond the supposedly paganistic imagery, "Christian" festivities serves a larger purpose of a rallying point for churches to open their doors to a more receptive crowd during such festivities. the bottom line is: to those who think that Christian festivities are overladen with pagan symbols and it affects their walk with God - don't be part of the celebration, but such folks need to understand that there is good reason to continue to do so, eg NCC's yearly collaboration with Mediacorp on their Christmas eve performance, where even Joe Prince gets up an sings a ditty or two.
We might want to consider the factors on why the Christians in the early days failed in China (Christianity was first introduced to China during the Tang Dynasty but it didn't survive for long). -
err.... think you ask the wrong person, me not from St Andrew, think you need to ask stellazio on this.Originally posted by Honeybunz:I know St Andrew's Cathedral had worship service on every Wednesday. Do they still have that? -
not very sure..i dun read the church bullentin much..but i think most of the cell group meetings are during the weekdays..Originally posted by Honeybunz:I know St Andrew's Cathedral had worship service on every Wednesday. Do they still have that?
den tuesday or what got some special prayer service..
not very sure..this week i go check bulletin.. -
Sorry, wrong numberOriginally posted by vince69:err.... think you ask the wrong person, me not from St Andrew, think you need to ask stellazio on this.