Do you consume "unclean" food?
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ok... Smoking... no mentionOriginally posted by Repented John 2:I only go according to bible lah. In bible where got char kway teow, bak chor mee etc? If the regulation on unclean foods was good for the Jews(who are still God's people) then & now, why can't Christians follow albeit not religiously as in go to hell if take them? They are also human. We are also human. But we gentiles. They God's people. When Christ came, only then are we accepted into God's kingdom by the blood covenant. Or else we like hooligans or barbarians to them.
In NT, all things are permissible for us, but not all things are good for us. Paul said it. Can Christians smoke or drink? No prohibition specifically what. Where did you see Thou shalt not drink alcohol or Thou shalt not smoke? Then we can say since we are saved by grace thru faith, we can smoke & drink.
Drinking Alcohol... yes, there is quite a lot of reference to this, one of those that drink Alcohol is JESUS.
the part that says drinking is not good is
Do Not be a Drunkard.
As in 1Cor10, All things are permissible (meaning its not a sin) but not all are benefical (meaning may not be good to you)
hence on smoking, its not a sin to smoke, just that the smoker may ended up going to God earlier. -
Bro,Originally posted by Repented John 2:It is not so simple. Holding joss stick means worshipping the demons behind the idols. Why still hold joss stick? Afraid of persecution? When I was a hot Christian, I dont hold joss sticks even if my parents worship idols. But when i lost my fervour, I held joss sticks & worshipped false gods. You dont know the demonic forces behind them. It's not so simple. When my mum converted already, she still go and hold joss stick & she got attacked by demons!
do continue to uphold your mother in prayers.
I know of a dear brother, when he first accepted Christ, he was a heavy smoker, after he accepted Christ, he is still smoking, during one of the time we met, he confer to me his worry about his salvation as he is still adicted to smoking.
I remember telling him that once he had accepted Christ is his personal savior, he is saved, and his smoking habit does not affect his salvation, just continue to build on this foundation that is Christ, and let the word of Christ set you free.
few years later, when I met him again, he is freed from smoking and is serving faithfully at his church.
Your mother had been doing all these things all of her life, it may had became a part of her, to ask her to suddenly give all these up may be too much to ask of her, do not stress her up too much nor condemn her, let her continue to feed of the Word of God, and let the Word of God slowly but surely fill her and free her.
Your part may just be to uphold her in your prayer, encourage her in the Word and please remember to give her the respect a mother deserve.
God Bless
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What are the ingredients of char kway teow and bak chor mee: first and foremost, PORK!Originally posted by Repented John 2:I only go according to bible lah. In bible where got char kway teow, bak chor mee etc? If the regulation on unclean foods was good for the Jews (who are still God's people) then & now, why can't Christians follow albeit not religiously as in go to hell if take them? They are also human. We are also human. But we gentiles. They God's people. When Christ came, only then are we accepted into God's kingdom by the blood covenant. Or else we like hooligans or barbarians to them.
In NT, all things are permissible for us, but not all things are good for us. Paul said it. Can Christians smoke or drink? No prohibition specifically what. Where did you see Thou shalt not drink alcohol or Thou shalt not smoke? Then we can say since we are saved by grace thru faith, we can smoke & drink.!
Lev 11:7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. So do you avoid these foodÂ….?
This verse probably forms the basis for kosher and halal food.
But you, John, do you eat kosher or halal food? ArenÂ’t you GodÂ’s people, do you abstain from pork? If you donÂ’t, you have no right to question anybody.
Correct, may I quote Paul who wrote the book of 1 Corinthians under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:Originally posted by Repented John 2:Again, I said unclean foods as listed in the bible not our modern scientific understanding. God is much more knowledgeable than our scientists right?
1 Cor 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords" ), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
So I ask you John, is Paul correct? Idols are nothing, the food has no power... Note that the reason given by Paul for any abstainance of some food is very clear - for the purpose of NOT stumbling others. You know, you are not Paul, you are precisely what Paul is talking about - one who is weak in conscience that when you eat such food you think of it having been sacrificied to an idol.
Eating food previously offered to idols is NOT partake food with demons. The meaning of partake is to be intrinscally involved in the ritual.Originally posted by Repented John 2:But Paul did say also we donÂ’t partake food with demons & also eat from the holy communion
You know, not only has your disposition NOT changed, your ability to misread remains inherently the same. Since when is holding joss stick worshipping? Holding joss stick and lighting it up and putting it into the urn IS worshipping. Holding joss stick in itself is a physical act. Here, I am not debating about participating in a idol worship, I am addressing only the mere act of holding a joss stick, although there is really no good reason why anyone should be doing it. It is to illustrate that there is a difference in real idol worshipping and picking up a joss stick or candle or angpowOriginally posted by Repented John 2:It is not so simple. Holding joss stick means worshipping the demons behind the idols. Why still hold joss stick? Afraid of persecution? When I was a hot Christian, I dont hold joss sticks even if my parents worship idols. But when i lost my fervour, I held joss sticks & worshipped false gods. You dont know the demonic forces behind them. It's not so simple. When my mum converted already, she still go and hold joss stick & she got attacked by demons!
You know, I am sad for you.... whatever god you are worshipping is so weak that he cannot withstand the supernatural power of the devil. How can you be so easily affected?
What is urgency? Rushing out and preach to one’s parents and refuse to let go? Or use one’s life story and testimony to allow the Holy Spirit to move? At the end of the day, it’s the individual‘s choice of whether to accept Christ or not. You are no position to question my urgency!Originally posted by Repented John 2:Then i assume there is no urgency to spread the gospel to them. -
Hehehe... you are not HIM!!Originally posted by breytonhartge:CANNOT!!!!
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Excuse me, what sort of idols are you referring too? YOu mean those with the image of Baal and mephisto?Originally posted by Repented John 2:It is not so simple. Holding joss stick means worshipping the demons behind the idols. Why still hold joss stick? Afraid of persecution? When I was a hot Christian, I dont hold joss sticks even if my parents worship idols. But when i lost my fervour, I held joss sticks & worshipped false gods. You dont know the demonic forces behind them. It's not so simple. When my mum converted already, she still go and hold joss stick & she got attacked by demons! -
Actually, we can't possibly please everyone and no need to do this either.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Is eating or not eating a persecution for God? persecution by whom?
Did God say not to bow?
Please the unbelievers in order to preach gospel to them, can't or not?
Infact there is one one person we need to please, GOD.
on the part of preaching the gospel, when our lives reflects Jesus to them, others will want to know and will come and enquire. -
If I am to paraphrase this statement, it might sound a little better: be at peace with unbelievers in order to preach the gospel to them.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Please the unbelievers in order to preach gospel to them, can't or not?
I think I know what you are trying to say: do not be in an antagonistic relationship with those you want to preach to.
I fully agree with this stance. -
Bro John,Originally posted by Repented John 2:I dont need a cert from you. Are you from IMH? It's ok that I am mad for Christ.
Just to assure you, You Are Not Mad. You are not Crazy.
God had given you a sound mind. -
deleted by CE
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Its war then!Originally posted by breytonhartge:CANNOT!!!! -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Thank you very much. Blessed are people like you who understand and bring peace for people like me who do not express very well. thank you.
If I am to paraphrase this statement, it might sound a little better: [b]be at peace with unbelievers in order to preach the gospel to them.
I think I know what you are trying to say: do not be in an antagonistic relationship with those you want to preach to. I fully agree with this stance.[/b] -
Originally posted by sgdiehard:Hehehe... you are not HIM!!
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lol?Originally posted by laurence82:Its war then! 
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
CE be at peace with the unbelievers I agree, it is spoken about in the bible, but to put it like sg said to please them, then that is unacceptable!
If I am to paraphrase this statement, it might sound a little better: [b]be at peace with unbelievers in order to preach the gospel to them.
I think I know what you are trying to say: do not be in an antagonistic relationship with those you want to preach to. I fully agree with this stance.[/b] -
What wants to fight with you?Originally posted by laurence82:Its war then! -
Progress thru conflictOriginally posted by shade343:lol? -
....which is why I've always emphasize that there are many ways to say something... some ways are good, some ways are bad.Originally posted by breytonhartge:CE be at peace with the unbelievers I agree, it is spoken about in the bible, but to put it like sg said to please them, then that is unacceptable! -
me? i didn't please my parents to preach to them. i refused to hold joss sticks, bow to ancestory worship etc. of course last time i'm young, i could have done it with more respect and politeness.
now they're believers la -
the keywords are "RESPECT AND POLITENESS"......Originally posted by dumbdumb!:me? i didn't please my parents to preach to them. i refused to hold joss sticks, bow to ancestory worship etc. of course last time i'm young, i could have done it with more respect and politeness.
now they're believers la I am glad it all worked out for you.... -
There are also many ways to see things, understand the unbelievers does not mean agree with them, pleasing them does not mean do as they did.Originally posted by Chin Eng:....which is why I've always emphasize that there are many ways to say something... some ways are good, some ways are bad.
If you ask how many christians really can preach to their parents, often than not you hear that it is easier to preach to the Thai and people in the distant land. Within the family, even within churches, in the name of "pleasing God not pleasing man", Christians persist on what they do, argue on things can eat and cannot eat, and forgot that God has other wishes for other Christians.
Will God ever fight with me for my love for him with my parents??
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....because it is testimonially (is there such a word?) easier to go to some hill tribes in Thailand for a week or a month and be on you Sunday best to preach the gospel, it is more difficult to show the same testimony to folks who raised you up and see all you entire emotional and psychological flaws.Originally posted by sgdiehard:There are also many ways to see things, understand the unbelievers does not mean agree with them, pleasing them does not mean do as they did.
If you ask how many christians really can preach to their parents, often than not you hear that it is easier to preach to the Thai and people in the distant land. Within the family, even within churches, in the name of "pleasing God not pleasing man", Christians persist on what they do, argue on things can eat and cannot eat, and forgot that God has other wishes for other Christians.
Will God ever fight with me for my love for him with my parents??
"Please God and not please men" - to me, it is another overused cliche... many-a-times used to justify personal agendas in churches - meaning a person wanted to do something, but face resistance, so throw up such a phrase - translated practically, don't challenged me, I am doing God's work....
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Thats because your parents already have a religion. Is there a need to turn tem into a christian.Originally posted by sgdiehard:There are also many ways to see things, understand the unbelievers does not mean agree with them, pleasing them does not mean do as they did.
If you ask how many christians really can preach to their parents, often than not you hear that it is easier to preach to the Thai and people in the distant land. Within the family, even within churches, in the name of "pleasing God not pleasing man", Christians persist on what they do, argue on things can eat and cannot eat, and forgot that God has other wishes for other Christians.
Will God ever fight with me for my love for him with my parents?? -
Actually, thank Vince for your advice. Actually she stopped holding joss sticks long time ago after her experience. Now she no longer worships idols. Thank God. She is also more receptive to Christ & Christian teachings altho she still doesnt go to chuch. Praise & thank God! Thanks for your comments.Originally posted by vince69:Bro,
do continue to uphold your mother in prayers.
I know of a dear brother, when he first accepted Christ, he was a heavy smoker, after he accepted Christ, he is still smoking, during one of the time we met, he confer to me his worry about his salvation as he is still adicted to smoking.
I remember telling him that once he had accepted Christ is his personal savior, he is saved, and his smoking habit does not affect his salvation, just continue to build on this foundation that is Christ, and let the word of Christ set you free.
few years later, when I met him again, he is freed from smoking and is serving faithfully at his church.
Your mother had been doing all these things all of her life, it may had became a part of her, to ask her to suddenly give all these up may be too much to ask of her, do not stress her up too much nor condemn her, let her continue to feed of the Word of God, and let the Word of God slowly but surely fill her and free her.
Your part may just be to uphold her in your prayer, encourage her in the Word and please remember to give her the respect a mother deserve.
God Bless -
Paul did say further down in 1 Cor 10:14-22 : 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread. 18 Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? 20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?Originally posted by Chin Eng:Correct, may I quote Paul who wrote the book of 1 Corinthians under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
1 Cor 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords" ), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
So I ask you John, is Paul correct? Idols are nothing, the food has no power... Note that the reason given by Paul for any abstainance of some food is very clear - for the purpose of NOT stumbling others. You know, you are not Paul, you are precisely what Paul is talking about - one who is weak in conscience that when you eat such food you think of it having been sacrificied to an idol.
that we cannot partake of the Lord's table & of the table of demons. Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? as in vv 21-22. do we take holy communion & food sacrificed to demons as in vv15-20. Paul told us not to have fellowship with demons. -
chineses gods.Originally posted by shade343:Excuse me, what sort of idols are you referring too? YOu mean those with the image of Baal and mephisto?