SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
I am sure they have been receiving complaints through formal channels by those using 851. No one said they refer to sgforums, but I know there are few people here who work for SMRT, so surely they take feedback to the team as well.
Hmmm lets hope the same can happen for 167 and 980 too, whatever it was.
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Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
Hmmm lets hope the same can happen for 167 and 980 too, whatever it was.
For 167,Hope Amdep can deploy 2 for a start..980 only need 3 A95s during peak hours.Weekends can deploy more.
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Originally posted by carbikebus:
For 167,Hope Amdep can deploy 2 for a start..980 only need 3 A95s during peak hours.Weekends can deploy more.
167 and 980 don't need DDs, just because they go to the city doesn't mean they have high loadings all the time that justifies a full DD shift. This is the reason why bendies are only deployed on 980 on Sundays.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
167 and 980 don't need DDs, just because they go to the city doesn't mean they have high loadings all the time that justifies a full DD shift. This is the reason why bendies are only deployed on 980 on Sundays.
They do have high loadings during peak hour, I just told someone that i have to stand all the way from Orchard to Sembawang and 167 was full to the door everytime during peak hour. At Upp Thomson Rd, pax alight, pax board still full to the door. -
Originally posted by SBS351M:
167 and 980 don't need DDs, just because they go to the city doesn't mean they have high loadings all the time that justifies a full DD shift. This is the reason why bendies are only deployed on 980 on Sundays.
Peak hour DDs wouldn't harm right?
167 Can try with 21 SDs and 3 DDs during peak while 980 can try 14 SDs and 2 DDs
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
They do have high loadings during peak hour, I just told someone that i have to stand all the way from Orchard to Sembawang and 167 was full to the door everytime during peak hour. At Upp Thomson Rd, pax alight, pax board still full to the door.But how many trips during peak, and are you able to get enough loading for the rest of the trips to justify DDs? No, because outside peak, it is relatively empty. What 167 and 980 needs is firstly, a staggered arrival timing (they come together, always) and secondly, higher frequencies using single deckers, it will be more beneficial to passengers this way as they will have a shorter waiting time AND more seats. Putting DDs will only give you the latter, not the former.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
They do have high loadings during peak hour, I just told someone that i have to stand all the way from Orchard to Sembawang and 167 was full to the door everytime during peak hour. At Upp Thomson Rd, pax alight, pax board still full to the door.Yes... in the mornings every 167 and 980 bus heading to town got at least 3/4 full standees observed opposite Sembawang Country Club. Its a long ride to town before any significant amount of passengers will alight.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
But how many trips during peak, and are you able to get enough loading for the rest of the trips to justify DDs? No, because outside peak, it is relatively empty. What 167 and 980 needs is firstly, a staggered arrival timing (they come together, always) and secondly, higher frequencies using single deckers, it will be more beneficial to passengers this way as they will have a shorter waiting time AND more seats. Putting DDs will only give you the latter, not the former.
167 and 980 together with 852 for nearly 7 years only 1-2 buses added..How to have higher frequencies when SMRT only concentrate deploy more SDs to their feeders and Intratowns?
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
But how many trips during peak, and are you able to get enough loading for the rest of the trips to justify DDs? No, because outside peak, it is relatively empty. What 167 and 980 needs is firstly, a staggered arrival timing (they come together, always) and secondly, higher frequencies using single deckers, it will be more beneficial to passengers this way as they will have a shorter waiting time AND more seats. Putting DDs will only give you the latter, not the former.
2 trip enough already what. 4pm-8pm split shift. I never say it is for off peak, i also got a seat after peak hour on 167/980. The main is peak hours. I tell u the commuters are long distance travellers who take this bus all the way to yishun or sembawang and i believe u know that some areas can be congested for 980/167 route so a DD wont kill -
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
Yes... in the mornings every 167 and 980 bus heading to town got at least 3/4 full standees observed opposite Sembawang Country Club. Its a long ride to town before any significant amount of passengers will alight.
I took during AM peak, Knn i stand all the way from SSC to Orchard. Freaking long journey sia and those seated alot of them alighted at Far East Plaza or Lucky Plaza wow -
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
Yes... in the mornings every 167 and 980 bus heading to town got at least 3/4 full standees observed opposite Sembawang Country Club. Its a long ride to town before any significant amount of passengers will alight.
The first significant amount of passengers will alight at Tagore, then along Upper Thomson, a change of passengers occur, (ie some Sembawang/Yishun pax alight while Sin Ming passengers board), then from Thomson medical centre, it is largely alightings.
In the opposite direction, it is typically seated with reasonable standing pax until Nee Soon camp where it empties out, and remains empty all the way to Sembawang. And because 167 and 980 comes together, this means if 980 gets the pax, 167 will be empty from the city all the way to Sembawang.
167 and 980 just needs better frequencies instead of DDs, really, as it can be quite hard to wait only to have both 167 and 980 come together.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
But how many trips during peak, and are you able to get enough loading for the rest of the trips to justify DDs? No, because outside peak, it is relatively empty. What 167 and 980 needs is firstly, a staggered arrival timing (they come together, always) and secondly, higher frequencies using single deckers, it will be more beneficial to passengers this way as they will have a shorter waiting time AND more seats. Putting DDs will only give you the latter, not the former.
But in the same vein, you can actually see a lot of empty DD's on 190, 972 and 960 during off peak also. They dont actually need DD's in the town-going direction after AM peak especially after the opening of DTL in Bt Panjang. At 6pm at the junction of Steven Road and Bt Timah Rd, town-going DD's on 190, 700, 960 and 972 are all practically seen to be empty.
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Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
But in the same vein, you can actually see a lot of empty DD's on 190, 972 and 960 during off peak also. They dont actually need DD's in the town-going direction after AM peak especially after the opening of DTL in Bt Panjang. At 6pm at the junction of Steven Road and Bt Timah Rd, town-going DD's on 190, 700, 960 and 972 are all practically seen to be empty.
If like dat those JIS also should have the same mindset haha -
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
But in the same vein, you can actually see a lot of empty DD's on 190, 972 and 960 during off peak also. They dont actually need DD's in the town-going direction after AM peak especially after the opening of DTL in Bt Panjang. At 6pm at the junction of Steven Road and Bt Timah Rd, town-going DD's on 190, 700, 960 and 972 are all practically seen to be empty.
The difference is, the frequencies for 190 and 972 are a lot better than 167 and 980, meaning that 190 and 972 despite having high frequencies, require DDs. Wouldn't it better to increase the frequency for 167 and 980 first before adding a DD?
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
The difference is, the frequencies for 190 and 972 are a lot better than 167 and 980. Wouldn't it better to increase the frequency first before adding a DD?
Like spamming SDs like how those feeders are doing right now -
Originally posted by TIB 585L:
If like dat those JIS also should have the same mindset hahaYes.. so comparing apple to apple (i.e. pax loading patterns), either some services are over pampered, or that the other set the services are starved, whichever way you look at it.
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Like spamming SDs like how those feeders are doing right nowFeeders require high frequencies due to the nature of the hub and spoke system, if there is a train arriving every 2 to 6 mins, thats a lot of people to clear.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
Feeders require high frequencies due to the nature of the hub and spoke system, if there is a train arriving every 2 to 6 mins, thats a lot of people to clear.
Yeah lately it is so high that bunching occurs and also the back bus is like miles away. Improve frequency to the max -
Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
Yes.. so comparing apple to apple (i.e. pax loading patterns), either some services are over pampered, or that the other set the services are starved, whichever way you look at it.
I believe the planners at LTA have the loading numbers to justify why DDs are on certain services and why they aren't on others. If the numbers had been convincing enough, they would had put DDs since 1st Sep.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
The difference is, the frequencies for 190 and 972 are a lot better than 167 and 980, meaning that 190 and 972 despite having high frequencies, require DDs. Wouldn't it better to increase the frequency for 167 and 980 first before adding a DD?
I see your logic. But 190 and 972 are becoming more and more empty especially during off peak hour and in the opposite direction even during peak hour. So perhaps, it can reduce the number of DD's as well as AP trips and only spam SD's in the "correct" direction during peak hours to tank the load as you suggested for 167 and 980?
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SMRT case not enough DDs
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Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
I see your logic. But 190 and 972 are becoming more and more empty especially during off peak hour and in the opposite direction even during peak hour. So perhaps, it can reduce the number of DD's as well as AP trips and only spam SD's in the "correct" direction during peak hours to tank the load as you suggested for 167 and 980?
Both cash cow svc
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Originally posted by TIB 585L:
Yeah lately it is so high that bunching occurs and also the back bus is like miles away. Improve frequency to the maxThats an operational issue though. And that is for feeder services with high scheduled frequencies, they are different from the issues 167 and 980 faces, which runs at lower frequencies. Wouldn't it be better for pax to wait for a shorter period than the scheduled 16-17 min freq during PM peak for 980 as an example?
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Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
I see your logic. But 190 and 972 are becoming more and more empty especially during off peak hour and in the opposite direction even during peak hour. So perhaps, it can reduce the number of DD's as well as AP trips and only spam SD's in the "correct" direction during peak hours to tank the load as you suggested for 167 and 980?
You have also to remember that during off peak, 190 and 972 have a significant "feeder" portion within CCK/BPJ that justifies the use of high capacity buses, while 167 and 980 have in comparison relatively lower loads between Chong Pang and Sembawang. And as observed by a lot of people, 960 has been downgraded with A22s replacing DDs.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
You have also to remember that during off peak, 190 and 972 have a significant "feeder" portion within CCK/BPJ that justifies the use of high capacity buses, while 167 and 980 have in comparison relatively lower loads between Chong Pang and Sembawang. And as observed by a lot of people, 960 has been downgraded with A22s replacing DDs.
Can simply intro some service to cover those "feeder" part of 190 and 972 during off peak. Like a 190A or 972B. Then spam them with SD's