Hopefully, the authorities would consider things like life cycle costs (LCC), return on investment (ROI), and net present value (NPV) - instead of just the lowest bid - when they decide which vendor to buy the buses from.
ROI should be the highest.
LCC should be the lowest.
NPV should be more than 0, if not equals to 0. Otherwise, reject.
Originally posted by gekpohboy:Hopefully, the authorities would consider things like life cycle costs (LCC), return on investment, net present value (NPV), etcetera., when they decide which vendor to buy the buses from.
ROI should be the highest.
LCC should be the lowest.
NPV should be more than 0, if not equals to 0. Otherwise, reject.
thank you einstein
Originally posted by TIB868X:thank you einstein
just saying/sharing la. happen to learn about financial analysis before, so might as well I share here. because what is knowledge if we don't apply or share it? :)
Anyway, by the fact that SMRT chose MAN over ADL probably means that MAN buses are better... or maybe MAN offered SMRT discounts... I don't know.
Originally posted by gekpohboy:just saying/sharing la. happen to learn about financial analysis before, so might as well I share here. because what is knowledge if we don't apply or share it? :)
Anyway, by the fact that SMRT chose MAN over ADL probably means that MAN buses are better... or maybe MAN offered SMRT discounts... I don't know.
I'm sure LTA is already very much concerned with minimizing costs while maximizing value.
Originally posted by sgbuses:It was a big deal for local operators. Call them microscopic then.
MAN/STK knows that and has that as their selling point on their marketing material.
MAN's three-door concept bus design can be replicated by any other bus manufacturers if that design is not patented. LTA does want to keep prices competitive.
Every bus manufacturer I know who are interested in supplying buses to LTA claims to be working towards lowering overall costs. I can't divulge any details because the big tender is coming up, but what I can say is differentiation under Euro VI won't be as great as you think.
Who knows, they might rely on brand differentiation and positioning because social media is currently all over it.
I hope Scania gets the winning formula this time. I haven't seen any operator using full Scania fleet yet. Maybe Prasarana (owner of the Rapid brand name in Malaysia) is the closest.
Originally posted by gekpohboy:just saying/sharing la. happen to learn about financial analysis before, so might as well I share here. because what is knowledge if we don't apply or share it? :)
Anyway, by the fact that SMRT chose MAN over ADL probably means that MAN buses are better... or maybe MAN offered SMRT discounts... I don't know.
MAN dealer (STK) has close ties to Ho Jinx. Before bringing in civillian buses and lorries, STK dealt with MAN 5-tonners for the army.
Originally posted by carbikebus:Maybe ADL do something?
Yea its a showdown between ADL and MAN... But got huge feeling MAN will snag the deal...
ADL when idle vibrates like no future, most likely they chose MAN for comfort and most likely fleet standardisation?
Originally posted by lemon1974:so the additional 137 buses with USB port might be B9TL?
I am new here. May I ask which source states that there will be additional 137 buses?
Originally posted by Bombardier456:I am new here. May I ask which source states that there will be additional 137 buses?
LTA press release on 31 Aug when they announced the USB port buses..
they did not mention about the model.. and there might be possibility that these 137 buses might be B9TL..
Originally posted by sgbuses:It was a big deal for local operators. Call them microscopic then.
MAN/STK knows that and has that as their selling point on their marketing material.
MAN's three-door concept bus design can be replicated by any other bus manufacturers if that design is not patented. LTA does want to keep prices competitive.
Every bus manufacturer I know who are interested in supplying buses to LTA claims to be working towards lowering overall costs. I can't divulge any details because the big tender is coming up, but what I can say is differentiation under Euro VI won't be as great as you think.
Who knows, they might rely on brand differentiation and positioning because social media is currently all over it.
If LTA intends to procure concept buses with an extra door at the rear of each bus, the purchasing costs of this kind of buses are likely to be high.
Take Enviro500 concept bus as an example. What ADL has to do is shifting the driveline from the near side to the off side. Moreover, since euro 6 engines usually operate at a higher temperature than their predecessors do, ADL has to find enough spaces to equip larger radiators. These imply that the cost of developing a new chassis is likely to be high and so does the retail price of this kind of bus.
Even if buses of this kind are ordered in bulk, as the case of New Routemaster suggests, the average purchasing cost is unlikely to decrease considerably.
When it comes to MAN A95 with 3 doors, despite no major modifications of the chassis required, it may not necessarily imply that the retail price of the production batch of 3-door MAN A95 (if any) will be low.
It is because bus manufacturers, like ADL, usually charge higher for the design and the manufacture of tailor-made buses, like Enviro400 City.
Although Enviro400 City and E40H MMC share the same driveline, the retail price of the former one is believed to be higher than that of the latter one.
If LTA wants to improve the layout of buses with cost minimisation, I think purchasing 12.8m double deckers with a large standing area may help.
But again can all high capacity feeder routes use 12.8m DDs?
Originally posted by carbikebus:But again can all high capacity feeder routes use 12.8m DDs?
Physically, they could. But is it a suitable bus? No. It may be better than a normal 12m DD, but the same situation of people not willing to move upstairs will exist, which is why bendy buses are still most suited for this role.
Originally posted by SBS351M:Physically, they could. But is it a suitable bus? No. It may be better than a normal 12m DD, but the same situation of people not willing to move upstairs will exist, which is why bendy buses are still most suited for this role.
That's why,Maybe feeder routes like 240,334 & 285 suitable for the 12.8m DDs..Others bendy buses do the job well..
Originally posted by SBS351M:Physically, they could. But is it a suitable bus? No. It may be better than a normal 12m DD, but the same situation of people not willing to move upstairs will exist, which is why bendy buses are still most suited for this role.
Yesterday SG5080Z 43M BC stayed at the Buangkok MRT bus stop for really long, just to get the pax to move up. As a result, the bus was at least 10 mins late. The lower deck was crazy packed.
Ironically, there were pax standing on the stairs but refusing to move to the upper deck which had at least 20 empty seats!
Originally posted by SBS3004X:Yesterday SG5080Z 43M BC stayed at the Buangkok MRT bus stop for really long, just to get the pax to move up. As a result, the bus was at least 10 mins late. The lower deck was crazy packed.
Ironically, there were pax standing on the stairs but refusing to move to the upper deck which had at least 20 empty seats!
Please post in relevant thread. Nothing to do with MAN DDs. Put in Loading level or miscillaneous topics.
Originally posted by SBS3004X:Yesterday SG5080Z 43M BC stayed at the Buangkok MRT bus stop for really long, just to get the pax to move up. As a result, the bus was at least 10 mins late. The lower deck was crazy packed.
Ironically, there were pax standing on the stairs but refusing to move to the upper deck which had at least 20 empty seats!
Because a few BCs was late more than 20mins and OCC instruct them to go halfway and 43M BCs suffer!
Originally posted by Bombardier456:If LTA intends to procure concept buses with an extra door at the rear of each bus, the purchasing costs of this kind of buses are likely to be high.
Take Enviro500 concept bus as an example. What ADL has to do is shifting the driveline from the near side to the off side. Moreover, since euro 6 engines usually operate at a higher temperature than their predecessors do, ADL has to find enough spaces to equip larger radiators. These imply that the cost of developing a new chassis is likely to be high and so does the retail price of this kind of bus.
Even if buses of this kind are ordered in bulk, as the case of New Routemaster suggests, the average purchasing cost is unlikely to decrease considerably.
When it comes to MAN A95 with 3 doors, despite no major modifications of the chassis required, it may not necessarily imply that the retail price of the production batch of 3-door MAN A95 (if any) will be low.
It is because bus manufacturers, like ADL, usually charge higher for the design and the manufacture of tailor-made buses, like Enviro400 City.
Even without the 3-doors...look at the OMV of the 60 A95s. I don't think LTA really had a choice in this instance.
This is where competitive tender could really play a role on lowering costs for the upcoming tender.
Originally posted by SBS3004X:Yesterday SG5080Z 43M BC stayed at the Buangkok MRT bus stop for really long, just to get the pax to move up. As a result, the bus was at least 10 mins late. The lower deck was crazy packed.
Ironically, there were pax standing on the stairs but refusing to move to the upper deck which had at least 20 empty seats!
See... Thats what u get when u have an LTA thag stubbornly continues to spam intake B9s and not make any progress on the concept buses...
Originally posted by sgbuses:Even without the 3-doors...look at the OMV of the 60 A95s. I don't think LTA really had a choice in this instance.
This is where competitive tender could really play a role on lowering costs for the upcoming tender.
If costs was an issue, ADL would have won hands down.
Do you think we will then be having ADL as our de facto supplier of public buses when the concepts kick in?
Originally posted by SBS3004X:Yesterday SG5080Z 43M BC stayed at the Buangkok MRT bus stop for really long, just to get the pax to move up. As a result, the bus was at least 10 mins late. The lower deck was crazy packed.
Ironically, there were pax standing on the stairs but refusing to move to the upper deck which had at least 20 empty seats!
blame it on the scheduling of go-ahead, which results in long headway/bunching, thus resulting in some buses are full.. dun blame the paxes for not going up..
Originally posted by SMB128B:See... Thats what u get when u have an LTA thag stubbornly continues to spam intake B9s and not make any progress on the concept buses...
even got 3 doors does not necessary mean ppl will go to back of buses.
just go and look at those bendies running on intratown/feeder. the trailer portion look like got ghost there when front part are with lots of standees...
Originally posted by SMB128B:If costs was an issue, ADL would have won hands down.
Do you think we will then be having ADL as our de facto supplier of public buses when the concepts kick in?
no one know who will win... maybe Volvo buses may come up with some design.. or even scania.. or maybe china brand....
dun be surprise later on that some china brand won the tender with its lowest cost (nowadays, around 80-90 % of the new private buses are mostly china brand)...
Originally posted by SMB128B:If costs was an issue, ADL would have won hands down.
Do you think we will then be having ADL as our de facto supplier of public buses when the concepts kick in?
That is possible for DDs, but for a very different reason.
ADL will have to come up with something better than Enviro200 to stand a chance in LTA's future SD procurement.
Originally posted by lemon1974:even got 3 doors does not necessary mean ppl will go to back of buses.
just go and look at those bendies running on intratown/feeder. the trailer portion look like got ghost there when front part are with lots of standees...
Very true.