SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
One of your "good" quality Enviro 500s taken when it was a month old. Seems that your comment on things not being fitted properly is applicable here.
I think you have to realise asthetics is a separate issue to the structural issues that concern the buses. An Enviro may look nicer than a Gemilang, but the E500 body structure just doesn't seem as strong as even a China bus. Even China buses don't produce that kind of creaks. The bus just doesn't feel as safe as it should be for passengers.
Well, the Enviros are still new, we will see what kind of condition they will be in when they are the age of the PSV (CDGE) B9TLs. And The PSV B9TLs don't have that kind of creaks from the body, its a strong body just that it has a vibration issue.
I doubt the Enviro 500 body will last, structually that is, regardless of who is assembling it. And have you seen the quality of the roof sheeting from above, its atrocious, never seen a new bus with such wavy roof before. You want to know why Gemilang and Wright doesn't have this? Because Wright and GML don't roll the roof sheeting onto the roof structure, the technology used by Wright and GML are similar (if I'm not wrong, the Alusussie technology), and involves properly and precisely (ie machine) bending the metal to its required shape, instead of just rolling a sheet of metal and affix it (most likely with SikaFlex) to the roof structure.
Let's not talk about the body structure etc., becus all the while I'm referring to the cheap qualities from GML..
Comparing the quality of what you have mentioned "The materials used on the Enviros look cheap", how come Enviros interior parts can last longer than GML ones?
Tapes were also used for the cover beside the emergency first aid kit area from A22s...
Look at A22, (random screen grab from Google, not sure where's the photo I've taken) the circled area are starting to "break"..shows the standard of GML bodywork. Just imagine when things start to come apart, so will the things start to drop down soon?
Even the black rubber strip on the OCs...it also came out eventually.
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Maybe I'll bring up this again...
"personally, I feel that the MAN double decker bus looks more atas than its ADL (Alexander Dennis Limited) and Volvo counterparts" - jurongresident on page 23 of this topic.
My reply :
"A95 doesn't look "atas", compared to ADL...
A95 interior seems to be "cheap" materials..and although ADL is made in China, there's standard there.."I wasn't simply referring to how nice A95 or ADL is, I was simply referring to the "aesthetics".
A95 also came from GML..and all the while, most GML stuff aren't good/last longer..perhaps it's the maintenance issue but I believe some are caused by the usage of cheap materials...
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Anyway, somebody posted a photo of A95 lower deck with a seems-to-be bus stopping sign..
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Let's not talk about the body structure etc., becus all the while I'm referring to the cheap qualities from GML..
Comparing the quality of what you have mentioned "The materials used on the Enviros look cheap", how come Enviros interior parts can last longer than GML ones?
Tapes were also used for the cover beside the emergency first aid kit area from A22s...
Look at A22, (random screen grab from Google, not sure where's the photo I've taken) the circled area are starting to "break"..shows the standard of GML bodywork. Just imagine when things start to come apart, so will the things start to drop down soon?
Even the black rubber strip on the OCs...it also came out eventually.
I wouldn't deny that Gemilang still has room for improvement, I have never denied that. But you are lumping everything from quality of materials used, to workmanship to how things look together as a generic indicator of "quality".
Here is my opinion and observations:
Materials used: Materials used by GML is better, plastics used look less cheap (not to be confused with the next point)
Workmanship (interior fittings): ADL is better (till now so far, we'll see down the road) (this is the point you are pointing out in your post)
Exterior Design: No comments/Ambivalent
Ride quality (including general feel of sturdiness): GML is better. -
Originally posted by TIB429E:
GML..and all the while, most GML stuff aren't good/last longer..perhaps it's the maintenance issue but I believe some are caused by the usage of cheap materials...
All these while, up till MANs, the GML products were assembled by third parties. The MANs if I'm not wrong, are the first buses for Singapore which GML has assembled themselves, and I think they have improved a lot from the earlier products. I am very confident that they can last a lot longer than you think. They still have room for improvement, and I think they should if they are to grow their business, and I have never denied that.
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Originally posted by SBS3975T:
so what i'm getting from this is, basically on the trim Enviro wins but based on structural integrity A95 wins?
I just have to say, Wright wins both, I'm sure that is a given. I'm glad Wright took the plunge back in 2003 or so to enter the far east market. They have brought good quality products to this region.
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Because all the while I'm simply referring just to the interior standards..Like you don't see ADL with such defacts so quickly..or flooring "peel off"(3075A etc.)..which probably caused by poor workmanship etc. That's my main point..
Anyway, while you're talking about the creaking sound..just wondering..am I hearing creaking sound from 5888H? [Not those engines ; listen it via the youtube link]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXdAC6_xhwM
Perhaps the past have influenced GML that bad..but still..the impression is there..the feel is still there, on current A22s. DD wise, I won't comment much as they aren't "hardcore" runner(the speed impact is lesser for DD) than the A22s(and A24s)..
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Because all the while I'm simply referring just to the interior standards..Like you don't see ADL with such defacts so quickly..or flooring "peel off"(3075A etc.)..which probably caused by poor workmanship etc. That's my main point..
Anyway, while you're talking about the creaking sound..just wondering..am I hearing creaking sound from 5888H? [Not those engines]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXdAC6_xhwM
Perhaps the past have influenced GML that bad..but still..the impression is there..the feel is still there, on current A22s. DD wise, I won't comment much as they aren't "hardcore" runner(the speed impact is lesser for DD) than the A22s(and A24s)..
Yes, at least you are now on the point. I have never said that the GML workmanship was better than ADL and I'm glad you have seen this point.
The creaking noise in the video is from the brake mechanism. I believe its from a third party manufacturer as it has been heard on the VDL DB300 and recent Mercedes OC500LEs. If you hear it, it means things are working as they should.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Anyway, somebody posted a photo of A95 lower deck with a seems-to-be bus stopping sign..
huh? you mean previously a95 dun have ah?
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Originally posted by SBS3975T:
huh? you mean previously a95 dun have ah?
I took SMB5892U and saw the additional bus stopping sign at the standing area, something which was not present on SMB5888H (not sure about 5889-5891 though).
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Gemilang have improved a lot in terms of quality. The Lion's City DD bodywork is their quality product so far. The only gripe I have is the metal poles they use, which has a cheap feel to it. Hopefully in the future they can adopt a more premium looking metal pole like those used on the Citaro.
I wonder how the UK Falkirk and Malaysian DefTech assembled ADLs fair compared to those assembled in China by Zhuhai Granton, do they creak that much?
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
860 has 1 bendy perm with effect from 15/11/2015 according to fellow bus enthusiasts on Facebook.
860 is BSEP. So why is it using non-BSEP vehicles?
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Originally posted by iveco:
860 is BSEP. So why is it using non-BSEP vehicles?
Same goes for 983...most of the BSEP buses have been transferred away to perm non BSEP services as a majority of their fleet because of upcoming GCM, it does not matter to SBST or SMRT anymore if they are using BSEP buses to perm BSEP services or otherwise since the number of spare BSEP buses in their depots are insufficient...in this case they still have many spare bendies kicked out by DDs, that is why bendies permed 171 and 983 as well.
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Originally posted by SBS3975T:
huh? you mean previously a95 dun have ah?
SMB5888H & SMB5889E don't have... Not sure about SMB5890A & SMB5891Y...
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
Yes, at least you are now on the point. I have never said that the GML workmanship was better than ADL and I'm glad you have seen this point.
The creaking noise in the video is from the brake mechanism. I believe its from a third party manufacturer as it has been heard on the VDL DB300 and recent Mercedes OC500LEs. If you hear it, it means things are working as they should.
Board SMB3524X just now..the bus seems to have lesser(or none) creaking sounds than those newer ones(SMB5049M eg.)..
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
I just have to say, Wright wins both, I'm sure that is a given. I'm glad Wright took the plunge back in 2003 or so to enter the far east market. They have brought good quality products to this region.
what about KUD?
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Board SMB3524X just now..the bus seems to have lesser(or none) creaking sounds than those newer ones(SMB5049M eg.)..
Could be a quality control issue.
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Originally posted by iveco:
what about KUD?
Quite honestly, the Scania DD chances in HK and Singapore market are slim. 7888 is more often than not found in the layup corner of amdep and the total number of these buses in HK is small, bearing in mind that it has been available for a good 7 or 8 years; I think the bus operators may feel that there are better products out there. Ride comfort wise, I think the Scania DD is not as good as the other products on the market, very hard suspension. From a personal point of view, Scania citybuses these days don't feel as comfortable to ride in as those in the past.
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I think the K series is more to vibrating issue.The 5 cylinders vibrate and jerking badly compared to their 6 cylinders counterparts..Even Airport drivers complained about the KUBs
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Registered on 23 Nov 2015
SMB5894P SMB5895L -
SMB5894P & SMB5896J are still at Woodlands Bus Park.
Both buses retain the same offside rear view mirror as the NL323F Batch 1s & 2s. Other than that, a technician punked a "189" EDS on SMB5894P at the Bus Park. -
Originally posted by SMB315C:
SMB5894P & SMB5896J are still at Woodlands Bus Park.
Both buses retain the same offside rear view mirror as the NL323F Batch 1s & 2s. Other than that, a technician punked a "189" EDS on SMB5894P at the Bus Park.SMB5893S go which depot?
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Originally posted by SMB3095S:
SMB5893S go which depot?
Likely KJDEP
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Good change and hopefully no breakdown.
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Originally posted by Clinda670:
Good change and hopefully no breakdown.
If living things can breakdown, why non-living things can't breakdown..