SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus
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There was an earlier discussion about this, but I had to wait for verification.
MAN A95 is not cheaper than ADL E500 MMC. As far as I am aware, not even close.
There will be a surplus of articulated buses displaced from Bulim.
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You must understand that LTA did sponsor the E500s to SMRT.Why buy more now when LTA took over the purchasing next year?
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Originally posted by AntiDennisLance:
167: 0 HC
851: 2 AP Bendies. 4 Split.
855: 0 HC
860: 0 HC
980: 0 HC
Point proven, based on your own argument.
860 has 1 bendy perm with effect from 15/11/2015 according to fellow bus enthusiasts on Facebook.
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A95 doesn't look "atas", compared to ADL...
A95 interior seems to be "cheap" materials..and although ADL is made in China, there's standard there..
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Originally posted by Gus.chong:
860 has 1 bendy perm with effect from 15/11/2015 according to fellow bus enthusiasts on Facebook.
860 no get dd. now smrt use own fleet. in time all bsep bus get convert to pto bus. so 860 get more bendy. dd save for trunk.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
There was an earlier discussion about this, but I had to wait for verification.
MAN A95 is not cheaper than ADL E500 MMC. As far as I am aware, not even close.
There will be a surplus of articulated buses displaced from Bulim.
As far as I am aware though, the A95 are about 10% cheaper than the E500. Comparing production units that is.
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anyway, the A95 is newer and relatively unproven (comparing to the E500), so it's certainly possible that that's why it's cheaper...
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
A95 doesn't look "atas", compared to ADL...
A95 interior seems to be "cheap" materials..and although ADL is made in China, there's standard there..
IMHO, the A95 construction feels a lot stronger and sturdier than the Enviros. The materials used on the Enviros look cheap, some of the plastic parts on the Enviros feels like plastics used in toys, soft and flimsy, and then there is the creaking noise from the body flexing, certainly the design and/or constuction of the Enviro body has been optimised for cost instead of quality, which is quite disappointing from Alexander Dennis as they used to produce good quality products. You certainly wouldn't want your car to have that kind of noise over bumps as it usually means something wasn't tightened when it should be.
The MAN with Gemilang body may not be as refined as a Wright, but it is certainly miles ahead in terms of quality when compared to the Enviros. The only drawbacks I can find with the MAN is the workmanship on interior fittings, which can be improved. Still better than the Enviros which sound like they have poorly constructed body frames, which is a crucial element when it comes to safety.
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SMB5894P has got another minor adjustment to the exterior looks.
The top-front of the bus is painted (or maybe isn't painted) in black, giving it a "better" look than the 5 earlier production units. -
Originally posted by SMB315C:
SMB5894P has got another minor adjustment to the exterior looks.
The top-front of the bus is painted (or maybe isn't painted) in black, giving it a "better" look than the 5 earlier production units.Yes, its top-front painted black instead of retaining silver like 5888H - 5893S...
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Originally posted by proudtobeme:
860 no get dd. now smrt use own fleet. in time all bsep bus get convert to pto bus. so 860 get more bendy. dd save for trunk.
860 will get DDs once it is tendered out to other operators. Now the priority is to get more high demand trunk services to get DDs, and SMRT is still short of DDs.
It's a matter of time that 860 will get DDs, unless a new feeder service is introduced to balance out its loads.
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Originally posted by SMB3095S:
Thats why. I have already asked SMRT about how many A95s will they order and they say its secret. Funny.
I suspect they are buying in small batches and batches to suit their needs now until LTA takes over their fleet next year. Then LTA may continue to procure more A95s under the assets of LTA.
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Originally posted by sgbuses:
There was an earlier discussion about this, but I had to wait for verification.
MAN A95 is not cheaper than ADL E500 MMC. As far as I am aware, not even close.
There will be a surplus of articulated buses displaced from Bulim.
A95 OMV is $430 000, while E500 OMV is $500 000... $70k difference..
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MAN A95 including bodywork is 430k?
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
IMHO, the A95 construction feels a lot stronger and sturdier than the Enviros. The materials used on the Enviros look cheap, some of the plastic parts on the Enviros feels like plastics used in toys, soft and flimsy, and then there is the creaking noise from the body flexing, certainly the design and/or constuction of the Enviro body has been optimised for cost instead of quality, which is quite disappointing from Alexander Dennis as they used to produce good quality products. You certainly wouldn't want your car to have that kind of noise over bumps as it usually means something wasn't tightened when it should be.
The MAN with Gemilang body may not be as refined as a Wright, but it is certainly miles ahead in terms of quality when compared to the Enviros. The only drawbacks I can find with the MAN is the workmanship on interior fittings, which can be improved. Still better than the Enviros which sound like they have poorly constructed body frames, which is a crucial element when it comes to safety.
Creaking is still fine..
IMO..Gemilang bodywork can be considered "cheap"...in terms of the quality. For Zuhai, they assembled the KMBs ADL too..and the feel of quality is there.
No doubt different models have different flaws. The rear seats of the lower deck, for Wright, should have followed ADLs & A95s way..it's quite hot actually..
A95 have no doubt the quietest engine so far...less vibration etc. If only they continue the uses of the ster new city seats and bigger EDS.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Creaking is still fine..
IMO..Gemilang bodywork can be considered "cheap"...in terms of the quality. For Zuhai, they assembled the KMBs ADL too..and the feel of quality is there.
No doubt different models have different flaws. The rear seats of the lower deck, for Wright, should have followed ADLs & A95s way..it's quite hot actually..
A95 have no doubt the quietest engine so far...less vibration etc. If only they continue the uses of the ster new city seats and bigger EDS.
I certainly wouldn't say creaking is fine. ADL may look nice both inside and outside, but what you can't see (ie parts concealed by interior fittings) is producing those worrying noises, I doubt the body will last without regular inspection and fastening of bolts and joints, and I also doubt its something that can be solved by improving workmanship, but rather its in the design of the body frame. The fact that ADL chose to produce chassis in Malaysia and bodying them in China speaks of how much they want to optimise costs.
The bodies by Wright and Gemilang (specifically recent ones) have less of these issues, and credits to them for upholding (for Wright) and improving (for Gemilang) on their quality of products. Gemilang may have a cheaper look, but it feels a lot safer to ride in than an Enviro 500.
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Originally posted by SMB315C:
SMB5894P has got another minor adjustment to the exterior looks.
The top-front of the bus is painted (or maybe isn't painted) in black, giving it a "better" look than the 5 earlier production units.Adding on - SMB5894P is using the MAN NL323F Batch 3 (small?) driver mirror (offside of the bus) instead of the usual MAN NL323F Batch 1 & 2 (bigger?) driver mirror that SMB5888H - SMB5893S has been using..
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Originally posted by SMB315C:
Adding on - SMB5894P is using the MAN NL323F Batch 3 (small?) driver mirror (offside of the bus) instead of the usual MAN NL323F Batch 1 & 2 (bigger?) driver mirror that SMB5888H - SMB5893S has been using..
It seems every 1 or 2 bus(es), there will be some changes...
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
I certainly wouldn't say creaking is fine. ADL may look nice both inside and outside, but what you can't see (ie parts concealed by interior fittings) is producing those worrying noises, I doubt the body will last without regular inspection and fastening of bolts and joints, and I also doubt its something that can be solved by improving workmanship, but rather its in the design of the body frame. The fact that ADL chose to produce chassis in Malaysia and bodying them in China speaks of how much they want to optimise costs.
The bodies by Wright and Gemilang (specifically recent ones) have less of these issues, and credits to them for upholding (for Wright) and improving (for Gemilang) on their quality of products. Gemilang may have a cheaper look, but it feels a lot safer to ride in than an Enviro 500.
IMO, the feeling of cheapo is there when riding A95..not sure why.
So far, A22s/A24s already faces some issue. You have the glue filling coming apart(on the A22 doors, can see from the nearside seats) etc. No doubt A95 will become like that sooner or later..Even seats that are not fixed properly are spotted..where's the quality?
Looking at the Wright, quite surprise that 1 of the WEG flooring starts to come out. Some of them have that creaking sounds too..but they are still surviving well though.
ADL uses plastic "like toys", aren't the others too? I know many bus fans went to "knock" on the side walls at the upper deck front, but mind that it's hollow..just added for design purpose. After so long, I've only seen the BS Sign having issue..other than that, nothing much. Given that the ADL vibrates a lot, they should shown signs of wear and tear easily if their bodywork quality is poor.
I can say that if ADL buses is bodied by GML, the bodywork will sure giveway soon. A95 is lucky that the bus is quiet and less vibrative, the impact taken is lesser than A22s..
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SMB5888H - Demo
SMB5889E - No ventilation gaps at the rear engine cover
SMB5890A - Ventilation gaps at the rear engine cover
SMB5891Y -
SMB5892U - MAN logo on all the rims
SMB5893S -
SMB5894P - A22 Batch3 Mirrors -
The way you are comparing different bus models is no different from this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVKuCbjFfIY
A lot of these is a matter of perception.
For starters, the bus models in question have good safety standards and are crash worthy. That's a pre-requiste for registration.
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
IMO, the feeling of cheapo is there when riding A95..not sure why.
So far, A22s/A24s already faces some issue. You have the glue filling coming apart(on the A22 doors, can see from the nearside seats) etc. No doubt A95 will become like that sooner or later..Even seats that are not fixed properly are spotted..where's the quality?
Looking at the Wright, quite surprise that 1 of the WEG flooring starts to come out. Some of them have that creaking sounds too..but they are still surviving well though.
ADL uses plastic "like toys", aren't the others too? I know many bus fans went to "knock" on the side walls at the upper deck front, but mind that it's hollow..just added for design purpose. After so long, I've only seen the BS Sign having issue..other than that, nothing much. Given that the ADL vibrates a lot, they should shown signs of wear and tear easily if their bodywork quality is poor.
I can say that if ADL buses is bodied by GML, the bodywork will sure giveway soon. A95 is lucky that the bus is quiet and less vibrative, the impact taken is lesser than A22s..
One of your "good" quality Enviro 500s taken when it was a month old. Seems that your comment on things not being fitted properly is applicable here.
I think you have to realise asthetics is a separate issue to the structural issues that concern the buses. An Enviro may look nicer than a Gemilang, but the E500 body structure just doesn't seem as strong as even a China bus. Even China buses don't produce that kind of creaks. The bus just doesn't feel as safe as it should be for passengers.
Well, the Enviros are still new, we will see what kind of condition they will be in when they are the age of the PSV (CDGE) B9TLs. And The PSV B9TLs don't have that kind of creaks from the body, its a strong body just that it has a vibration issue.
I doubt the Enviro 500 body will last, structually that is, regardless of who is assembling it. And have you seen the quality of the roof sheeting from above, its atrocious, never seen a new bus with such wavy roof before. You want to know why Gemilang and Wright doesn't have this? Because Wright and GML don't roll the roof sheeting onto the roof structure, the technology used by Wright and GML are similar (if I'm not wrong, the Alusussie technology), and involves properly and precisely (ie machine) bending the metal to its required shape, instead of just rolling a sheet of metal and affix it (most likely with SikaFlex) to the roof structure.
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time to refuse riding enviros
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Registered on 11 Nov 2015
SMB5893SRegistered on 17 Nov 2015
SMB5896J -
so what i'm getting from this is, basically on the trim Enviro wins but based on structural integrity A95 wins?