SMRT trials MAN double-decker bus
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
So SMRT will deal with so many models... 40 units of A24s... few of A95s... few of E500s.. unless it is A22 to A95 order replacement... just doesn't make sense for them to order A95s when they can just order E500s.
As to why...your guess is as good as mine.
This is the very same operator which decided, two years ago, to condemn its minority bus models earlier than their de-registration date.
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
SMB5891Y has adopted 3rd design which is similar to KMB's AMNE1, with extra vents at the engine cover...**
** Made a mistake, it's 5891Y, not 5890A as what i stated earlier...
Lol. Saw a picture, both have new design
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
I do not understand what's your reason for opposing a new type which is essentially similar to existing buses in the fleet. It is a type that doesn't complicate maintenance matters, requires a lot less time to train drivers on, and enables economies of scale to be achieved. All of which enables a company to save a great deal of money and to spend less time and money on various training. SBS is also doing it, otherwise they wouldn't had bought around 1600 B9TLs, 1100 Scanias and 1000 Citaros. The number of MAN buses in SMRT's fleet totals only 693 as of today, much less than the numbers of each of the types SBS operate.
I'm simply saying once SMRT has gotten the MMCs, they should simply stick to it and not introduce yet another type of bus, regardless of how similar it is to the buses it already has. You're talking as if A95 is exactly the same as A22. Sure, many similarities but of course not 100%. It is not right to buy A95s simply because you already have A22s. Have MMCs as DDs, just stick to one type of DD. Already SD fleet chapalang, OC, Citaro, A22, don't further complicate the fleet of DDs. The A95 would have been the best purchase if they had gotten it instead of the MMCs but unfortunately, it didn't existed then. Best to remain decisive and stick to what they already have.
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Originally posted by TIB868X:
I'm simply saying once SMRT has gotten the MMCs, they should simply stick to it and not introduce yet another type of bus, regardless of how similar it is to the buses it already has. You're talking as if A95 is exactly the same as A22. Sure, many similarities but of course not 100%. It is not right to buy A95s simply because you already have A22s. Have MMCs as DDs, just stick to one type of DD. Already SD fleet chapalang, OC, Citaro, A22, don't further complicate the fleet of DDs. The A95 would have been the best purchase if they had gotten it instead of the MMCs but unfortunately, it didn't existed then. Best to remain decisive and stick to what they already have.
I disagree. The main priority is not whether there are many different models for a type of bus (ie. DDs), but the main point is whether there will be difficulties in maintaining the different types of buses. In this case, should the A95 be similar to the A22, by purchasing more A95s it will still be explained in the same way as if SMRT purchased more A22s; and would not have actually impacted the ability of SMRT in maintaining different buses because it is still essentially the same. If SMRT purchased another DDs for this case (like Volvo B8TLs or B9TLs), it would have been entirely a different story.
We openly welcome different types of DDs as long as they do not serve as a hinderance to maintainence of different buses; SMRT did the right thing this time round by getting MAN A95s; since they know how to maintain Enviro500s in the first place, it would have made no difference if they buy A95s since it is as easy to maintain as the A22s. -
Originally posted by TIB868X:
I'm simply saying once SMRT has gotten the MMCs, they should simply stick to it and not introduce yet another type of bus, regardless of how similar it is to the buses it already has. You're talking as if A95 is exactly the same as A22. Sure, many similarities but of course not 100%. It is not right to buy A95s simply because you already have A22s. Have MMCs as DDs, just stick to one type of DD. Already SD fleet chapalang, OC, Citaro, A22, don't further complicate the fleet of DDs. The A95 would have been the best purchase if they had gotten it instead of the MMCs but unfortunately, it didn't existed then. Best to remain decisive and stick to what they already have.
So simply put, you don't have a practical (ie operational or financial efficency) reason as to why SMRT should not buy the A95. It reeks of a typical bus enthusiast mindset where bus companies have to buy what the bus enthusiast wants.
The A95 doesn't complicate matters. Operationally, it is very likely just treated the same as any other double decker, while mechanically, its treated as another MAN, at most a simple difference training could be done if they feel that is needed, but definitely easier than doing a full training on a completely new type like the Enviro 500.
*I wouldn't say the A95 is 100% similar to the A22, but rather, upwards of 90%. Same D2066LUH engine, same ZF Ecolife 6AP2000B gearbox plus all the other parts in the engine compartment. The differences mainly lies in the additional axle parts and fuel tank location and shape/size.
In the business world, you are free to choose any product to suit your operational needs. You are not bound to a single manufacturer. Perhaps the A95 trial went successful and SMRT found it a better product to fit its needs, which is not suprising IMO as personally, the build quality of the Enviro 500 leaves a lot to be desired.
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At least it's under the same brand - MAN. Same assembler as OC too..
Infact, SMRT now only have Mercedes Benz, MAN & ADL...don't seems to be an issue for me. Compared to the past, there's DAF, Dennis, Scania, Hino, Nissan, Mercedes..that's way too much.
There's ought to have a variety in the fleet, not the same ones over and over. Maintenance may be difficult, but at least it's manageable. I believe this will do well for the staff there, of not having same things over and over.
And infact, if LTA wish to standalise, they should order BSEP Citaro for SMRT rather than MAN~ even better~~
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
At least it's under the same brand - MAN.
Infact, SMRT now only have Mercedes Benz, MAN & ADL...don't seems to be an issue for me. Compared to the past, there's DAF, Dennis, Scania, Hino, Nissan, Mercedes..that's way too much.
There's ought to have a variety in the fleet, not a dull ones. Maintenance may be difficult, but at least it's manageable. I believe this will do well for the staff there, of not having same things over and over.
And infact, if LTA wish to standalise, they should order BSEP Citaro for SMRT rather than MAN~ even better~~
Only problem with going with the Citaro is whether Mercedes is willing to continue producing Euro 5 C1 Facelift Citaros after the SBS order. The Euro 6 C2s have a different engine and a different layout in the engine compartment, plus different body styling.
As there are still MAN A22s under BSEP that have not been registered yet, there is no need for LTA to buy any additional single deckers for SMRT. That said, anything is possible if LTA's approach under the contracting model is different from SBS and SMRT, ie if they prefer to have different models to spread risks/advantages then we may see more variety. For now, we don't know yet.
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walao for goodness sake..whatever buses the operators buy,we also got no say in it what.. they alr bought the buses and there are ppl complaining why they bought that particular model.. wah come on la..they buy 1100 of the same model got ppl complain..then they buy diff types of buses also still keep complaining.. wah really very power sia like that..they think what? i seriously wonder wtf is wrong with this kind of ppl sia..must throw this type of narrow minded assholes to countries like india all..
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Originally posted by Merczrox:
walao for goodness sake..whatever buses the operators buy,we also got no say in it what.. they alr bought the buses and there are ppl complaining why they bought that particular model.. wah come on la..they buy 1100 of the same model got ppl complain..then they buy diff types of buses also still keep complaining.. wah really very power sia like that..they think what? i seriously wonder wtf is wrong with this kind of ppl sia..must throw this type of narrow minded assholes to countries like india all..
agree with what you say... no aircon they complain... then got aircon also complain aircon too cold lah.... then buy KUB complain say got step at the back... buy citaros, say aisle too narrow lah..... buy so many wright say too boring lah, should change the design lah... buy 12m too short, must buy 12.8m buses.. etc etc
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
agree with what you say... no aircon they complain... then got aircon also complain aircon too cold lah.... then buy KUB complain say got step at the back... buy citaros, say aisle too narrow lah..... buy so many wright say too boring lah, should change the design lah... buy 12m too short, must buy 12.8m buses.. etc etc
we are a complaining nation... with the new generation totally pampered like rich parents kids.
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Originally posted by BusAnalayzer:
we are a complaining nation... with the new generation totally pampered like rich parents kids.
true... i still prefer those older type NAC buses... leyland/volvo/mercedes SDs and mercedes DD...
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Complain to make the public transport better. If SMRT decides to order A95s due to lower cost, it will benefit from it.
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Originally posted by lemon1974:
basically A95 is cheaper loh... by $70000.... E500 cost $505 000 while A95 is only $430 000.. ten bus 700 000. .100 bus = $7 million cheaper leh...
how about the price of KUB vis a vis B9TL?
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Originally posted by Merczrox:
walao for goodness sake..whatever buses the operators buy,we also got no say in it what.. they alr bought the buses and there are ppl complaining why they bought that particular model.. wah come on la..they buy 1100 of the same model got ppl complain..then they buy diff types of buses also still keep complaining.. wah really very power sia like that..they think what? i seriously wonder wtf is wrong with this kind of ppl sia..must throw this type of narrow minded assholes to countries like india all..
I didn't know opinions and discussions are not allowed here. You're just complaining about the way forum works. I enjoy the discussions here because they open new perspectives. Behave or leave.
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I dont mind they buy A95 cause afterall its also a MAN brand which currently the majority fleet in SMRT buses.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
Only problem with going with the Citaro is whether Mercedes is willing to continue producing Euro 5 C1 Facelift Citaros after the SBS order. The Euro 6 C2s have a different engine and a different layout in the engine compartment, plus different body styling.
As there are still MAN A22s under BSEP that have not been registered yet, there is no need for LTA to buy any additional single deckers for SMRT. That said, anything is possible if LTA's approach under the contracting model is different from SBS and SMRT, ie if they prefer to have different models to spread risks/advantages then we may see more variety. For now, we don't know yet.
Hahas actually what I'm saying is that at start, LTA should just buy Citaros for SMRT under BSEP also..
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Originally posted by TIB429E:
Hahas actually what I'm saying is that at start, LTA should just buy Citaros for SMRT under BSEP also..
Under the contracting model, I don't think LTA will buy buses for specific operators, they will make purchases based on their own decisions, and would distribute the buses to the operators based on the contractual agreements and operational needs of the areas they serve in, it is similar to what is being done in London (Borismasters only), Perth and Adelaide. And even under the BSEP scheme, LTA wasn't the one who made the fleet decisions, as they simply funded part of the orders SBS and SMRT made.
Off topic: The last sentence is why I think sgwiki is inaccurate. They have terms such as BSEP Batch 1, 2 and 3 for the B9TL Wrights. The fact is the BSEP buses are part of the same orders as the regular buses, ie 3300-3329 are actually Batch 2 Wrights; 3330 to 3448 are actually Batch 3 Wrights and 3449 onwards are Batch 4 Wrights, all of which were allocated as BSEP Buses. Of course you would know that there is no batch 1 Wrights that are under BSEP. The body numbers and to a large extent, the VINs confirm this.
Then I have came across "batch 4" MAN A22s on another website I can't remember. Unless SMRT has made an announcement about it, there is no such thing as yet. Apparently someone treated the Voith A22s as another batch, they are not. Officially, as of today, there are only 3 batches of A22s purchased by SMRT, whether or not the specification of the gearbox specification changes does not change this fact. Always check the official press releases (if there are any) before putting up the info.
Reason: There was a similar situation 10 years ago here where a bus fan created his own designation for a certain type of bus with a different body from an earlier batch of buses and rumour was that the manufacturer wasn't too happy about it as it led people to think that they had a new product. Similarly, these cases could lead people to think that a bus company has made additional orders when there were none.
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Originally posted by SBS351M:
Under the contracting model, I don't think LTA will buy buses for specific operators, they will make purchases based on their own decisions, and would distribute the buses to the operators based on the contractual agreements and operational needs of the areas they serve in, it is similar to what is being done in London (Borismasters only), Perth and Adelaide. And even under the BSEP scheme, LTA wasn't the one who made the fleet decisions, as they simply funded part of the orders SBS and SMRT made.
Off topic: The last sentence is why I think sgwiki is inaccurate. They have terms such as BSEP Batch 1, 2 and 3 for the B9TL Wrights. The fact is the BSEP buses are part of the same orders as the regular buses, ie 3300-3329 are actually Batch 2 Wrights; 3330 to 3448 are actually Batch 3 Wrights and 3449 onwards are Batch 4 Wrights, all of which were allocated as BSEP Buses. Of course you would know that there is no batch 1 Wrights that are under BSEP. The body numbers and to a large extent, the VINs confirm this.
Then I have came across "batch 4" MAN A22s on another website I can't remember. Unless SMRT has made an announcement about it, there is no such thing as yet. Apparently someone treated the Voith A22s as another batch, they are not. Officially, as of today, there are only 3 batches of A22s purchased by SMRT, whether or not the specification of the gearbox specification changes does not change this fact. Always check the official press releases (if there are any) before putting up the info.
Reason: There was a similar situation 10 years ago here where a bus fan created his own designation for a certain type of bus with a different body from an earlier batch of buses and rumour was that the manufacturer wasn't too happy about it as it led people to think that they had a new product. Similarly, these cases could lead people to think that a bus company has made additional orders when there were none.
Actually I had proposed the BSEP bus pages to be renamed to Batch X (BSEP) rather than BSEP Batch X (so the BSEP B9TLs would be starting with Batch 2B (BSEP) rather than BSEP Batch 1), but I don't think anyone actually bothered.
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It's just a bus.
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Actually I would have been SMRT's decision if they had purchased something like a Volvo DD. But luckily they didnt.
Since its MAN A95, I guess its not so bad. Yes the engines are not the same as the A22 but there should be alot of similarities and many commonly used parts. And I think A95 uses the same engine configuration as MAN A24?
Back then when E500s were ordered, I dont think the A95 was available. And with LTA probably putting immense pressure on SMRT to buy DDs (Considering the fact that the demonstrator unit and the production fleet arriving at such close proximity as opposed to previous models where demonstrator was trialed for a long period), SMRT had to opt for E500s which have proven to serve well in HK and London. And now since SMRT has A24s as well, its good they good A95s. In future, the E500s can be used in a contracting model by a different operator and SMRT can keep the A95s together with its A22s and A24s
As to why they didnt buy B9TL in anticipation of the future bus contracting model, I guess its because maybe SMRT wanted their own identity and more than that LTA might not have wanted to put all its eggs in the same basket. Lets say for some reason, B9TLs have some newly discovered flaw and have to be grounded (shouldnt happen but Im sure such hypothetical situations are considered in decision making), LTA will have buses of another model to fall back on instead being totally gone case and having a major emergency.
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Something different for the 4th edition A95 soon...
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This whole debate has become a moot point.
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yesterday 5890 on 188
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any differences between 5889, 5890 and 5891?
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Originally posted by TIB1234T:
Something different for the 4th edition A95 soon...
Every A95, there's something different