In my opinion 851 doesnt warrant many high capacity buses.Ideal fleet is 15 OC500LE,9 A95/E500 and 3 A22/Citaro.Full day shift cam deploy 6 DDs while 3 will be on split duties.
854 simply warrant many HC buses,20 A95/E500,7 OC500LE will be nice.
857 need 14 A95/E500,5 A22/OC500LE/Citaro.
Any excess DDs can be deployed to svc like 61,67 and 961.
Originally posted by randomguy10:Well, with SMRT buying so many SDs, this is probably the after effects being felt now. I guess SMRT only sees the need to upgrade when the SD bus becomes so packed till people cant board. For 851, most of the times, the SDs only have 70% of standee space used up. Bendys usually have very few standees during weekday peak hours from AMK to Little India Area. The bendys are quite well-utilised on weekends between AMK and Little India/Bugis sectors.
Used to take 851 to school as a secondary school student some 12-13 years ago daily. Back then 851 loading was very high and the newly registered bendies were a saviour. But somewhere along the way, 851 seemed to have lost its very high demand and only became moderate demand. And with the service going WAB, alot of bendys were replaced with OCs with an increased frequency. Recently loading has picked up again for people along AMK ave 6 and marymount taking the service to Marymount CCL. But its still not reaching the very high demands of the past. So IMO, this service needs upgrade, but not in dire need yet.
even on weekends (sundays) 851 has been downgraded from 5 to 3 bendies, and 1 TQ slot (maybe 1 of the 3 bendy) now crossing to 860...
851 is still very crowded in the morning at 6:45 onwards and especially at 7+am, with all rigids completely packed and many people needing to wait for the next bus, but SMRT just simply ignored it... all the 851 bendies continue to cross to services like 856, with the first one only coming at 8+am.
People from marymount thomson etc have switched to SBST's 54 (and im sure some others), which has been upgraded, receiving DDs over the past years
dk how smrt can neglect it like that... (and also strange why no bsep add yet, whereas svcs like 966 are getting adds excessively)
Originally posted by SMB1333T:even on weekends (sundays) 851 has been downgraded from 5 to 3 bendies, and 1 TQ slot (maybe 1 of the 3 bendy) now crossing to 860...
851 is still very crowded in the morning at 6:45 onwards and especially at 7+am, with all rigids completely packed and many people needing to wait for the next bus, but SMRT just simply ignored it... all the 851 bendies continue to cross to services like 856, with the first one only coming at 8+am.
People from marymount thomson etc have switched to SBST's 54 (and im sure some others), which has been upgraded, receiving DDs over the past years
dk how smrt can neglect it like that... (and also strange why no bsep add yet, whereas svcs like 966 are getting adds excessively)
As I mentioned 851 has lost its loading to a great extent.
1. People are frustrated with the poor service levels on 851 and getting no seat
2. People have moved to other services
3. Along 851s route there are other alternatives available, unlike 857 and 966... hence, those were a higher priority.
Wonder if anyone spotted 5889?Wlbp saw about 2-3 new A95s few days ago.
My guess is that SMRT only ordered 30 units while LTA might probably purchased more than 50 units gradually.But looking at their current spacing at the depots,They might retire early those non WAB buses.Right now only WLBP got few spaces.
Wldep/Wlbp might take 60% of the units while Kjdep takes about 25% and the balance might goes to Amdep.
WLDEP/WLBP DD or require DD* service:167*,169,176,184*,187,700,850e,856,857,951e,960
961,962*,963,964,965,966,969,971e* & 980*.
KJDEP DD or require DD* service:61,67,172,176,180*,188,190,700
868,972 & 985.
AMDEP DD or require DD* service:61*,67*,167*,171*,531*,850e*,851*
854,855*,857,860*,961*,980* & 985*.
Although 851 has dropped its number of bendys over the years, i must say the frequency has increased considerably compared to the past. Its quite sad actually, given that 851 was one of the pioneer services to get bendys other than 960 back then. Yes it is true that people have to end up standing on rigids if they are boarding after AMK central. But even if you add DDs to 851, its not going to impact the loading as much as 857 or 966. SMRT has been doing justice to the DDs by deploying them on services like 190, 857, 963, 966, 972 because these are the kind of routes that really utilize DDs well.
For 190, 963, 972, 857 and 966, they are semi-express services and so they provide quick links as an alternative to MRT. But for 851, since it has no express sectors and most of the sectors are served by MRT as well, the load is pretty hard to go up. The uniqueness of this route has dropped over the years due to MRT developments too. Besides DDs are definitely going to push up the runtime for the 851 route compared to the rigids and bendys, eventually making MRT a faster option. So IMO, 851 can stay at similar ratio of SDs and HC buses maybe 3-4 upgrades at most.
Originally posted by randomguy10:Although 851 has dropped its number of bendys over the years, i must say the frequency has increased considerably compared to the past. Its quite sad actually, given that 851 was one of the pioneer services to get bendys other than 960 back then. Yes it is true that people have to end up standing on rigids if they are boarding after AMK central. But even if you add DDs to 851, its not going to impact the loading as much as 857 or 966. SMRT has been doing justice to the DDs by deploying them on services like 190, 857, 963, 966, 972 because these are the kind of routes that really utilize DDs well.
For 190, 963, 972, 857 and 966, they are semi-express services and so they provide quick links as an alternative to MRT. But for 851, since it has no express sectors and most of the sectors are served by MRT as well, the load is pretty hard to go up. The uniqueness of this route has dropped over the years due to MRT developments too. Besides DDs are definitely going to push up the runtime for the 851 route compared to the rigids and bendys, eventually making MRT a faster option. So IMO, 851 can stay at similar ratio of SDs and HC buses maybe 3-4 upgrades at most.
It is sad but that is how SMRT is thinking as well... and hence the sorry state of 851 today!
SMB5889E on 188
https://youtu.be/xXaKvdQzBaw
Originally posted by randomguy10:
For 190, 963, 972, 857 and 966, they are semi-express services and so they provide quick links as an alternative to MRT. But for 851, since it has no express sectors and most of the sectors are served by MRT as well, the load is pretty hard to go up. The uniqueness of this route has dropped over the years due to MRT developments too. Besides DDs are definitely going to push up the runtime for the 851 route compared to the rigids and bendys, eventually making MRT a faster option. So IMO, 851 can stay at similar ratio of SDs and HC buses maybe 3-4 upgrades at most.
Although 851 doesn't have express sectors, it does have many pax who take the svc over a long distance, eg Yishun - AMK/Marymount and AMK/Marymount - Little India/Rochor/Chinatown, who should be willing to go to the upper deck of DDs. I wouldn't say new MRT lines like CCL and DTL duplicate the route and remove its uniqueness, even the upcoming TEL doesn't directly duplicate 851. It's worth noting though that 851's route runs largely parallel to the yet-to-be-built NSE (North South Expressway), from Lentor to Little India/Rochor.
Personally, I think it may be a case of pent up demand like 857, where many potential pax choose to take other svcs instead, especially with other alternative svcs like 852, 54, 166 and 980.
Although dwell times would increase compared to the bendies used currently, 851 goes through quite a lot of city areas which would benefit from the decreased road space taken up, by using DDs instead. Looking at similar non-express SBST svcs from housing estates to the city like 51, 133, 143, 166, I personally think DDs would work, just that SMRT's lack of DDs (relative to SBST) means other svcs get them preferentially.
But somehow I feel 851 will receive any DDs at all given the fact that it has many alternatives available as mentioned above; 852 from Yishun to marymount, 166 from Thomson to Rochor, 33 and 63 from Tiong Bahru to Bugis, 855 from Yishun to Bukit Merah and there is the more popular 857 which plies a much faster route to the city than 851. I think it will receive 1-2 DDs at most if lucky given its moderate demand that may only operate during weekdays like 961 DDs.
Originally posted by 201911:Although 851 doesn't have express sectors, it does have many pax who take the svc over a long distance, eg Yishun - AMK/Marymount and AMK/Marymount - Little India/Rochor/Chinatown, who should be willing to go to the upper deck of DDs. I wouldn't say new MRT lines like CCL and DTL duplicate the route and remove its uniqueness, even the upcoming TEL doesn't directly duplicate 851. It's worth noting though that 851's route runs largely parallel to the yet-to-be-built NSE (North South Expressway), from Lentor to Little India/Rochor.
Personally, I think it may be a case of pent up demand like 857, where many potential pax choose to take other svcs instead, especially with other alternative svcs like 852, 54, 166 and 980.
Although dwell times would increase compared to the bendies used currently, 851 goes through quite a lot of city areas which would benefit from the decreased road space taken up, by using DDs instead. Looking at similar non-express SBST svcs from housing estates to the city like 51, 133, 143, 166, I personally think DDs would work, just that SMRT's lack of DDs (relative to SBST) means other svcs get them preferentially.
The future NSE does not allow an entry from Lentor.
DDs on 851 would benefit. It is odd that this svc can go WAB without any high capacity buses that are WAB.
What is so odd to obtain WAB when there is 3 models of WAB buses for 851?
Originally posted by carbikebus:What is so odd to obtain WAB when there is 3 models of WAB buses for 851?
back then when 851 went WAB
a number of OCs, O405s and some O405Gs.
now you have OCs, taros and A22s but lesser bendies (non-WAB) and no DDs. loading drop so much?
SMB5891Y has adopted 3rd design which is similar to KMB's AMNE1, with extra vents at the engine cover...**
** Made a mistake, it's 5891Y, not 5890A as what i stated earlier...
Originally posted by TIB1234T:SMB5890A has adopted 3rd design which is similar to KMB's AMNE1, with extra vents at the engine cover...
hmm? So it is different again? I presume you're referring to the rear.
So how many units is the order... or are 5888, 5889 both demos to be different from PB? i don't suppose is SMRT keep changing specs bus by bus.
Originally posted by CB2883J:hmm? So it is different again?
Yes rear slightly diff, although still with 3rd brakelight in place like 5889E, but for 5891Y it seems there is no place to put SMRT logo unless follow KMB on the bottom side of engine cover... However, it looks much better than 5889E somehow...
Originally posted by CB2883J:So how many units is the order... or are 5888, 5889 both demos to be different from PB? i don't suppose is SMRT keep changing specs bus by bus.
Dunno how many units they ordered, however, i think they are testing diff rear specs to see which is better among these 3 A95s...
Originally posted by TIB1234T:Yes rear slightly diff, although still with 3rd brakelight in place like 5889E, but for 5890A it seems there is no place to put SMRT logo unless follow KMB on the bottom side of engine cover... However, it looks much better than 5889E somehow...
Sorry, but need to clarify that it's SMB5891Y that has diff rear... 5890A is still missing currently...
I see. Hope to see pictures soon.
Interesting..
Originally posted by randomguy10:Although 851 has dropped its number of bendys over the years, i must say the frequency has increased considerably compared to the past. Its quite sad actually, given that 851 was one of the pioneer services to get bendys other than 960 back then. Yes it is true that people have to end up standing on rigids if they are boarding after AMK central. But even if you add DDs to 851, its not going to impact the loading as much as 857 or 966. SMRT has been doing justice to the DDs by deploying them on services like 190, 857, 963, 966, 972 because these are the kind of routes that really utilize DDs well.
For 190, 963, 972, 857 and 966, they are semi-express services and so they provide quick links as an alternative to MRT. But for 851, since it has no express sectors and most of the sectors are served by MRT as well, the load is pretty hard to go up. The uniqueness of this route has dropped over the years due to MRT developments too. Besides DDs are definitely going to push up the runtime for the 851 route compared to the rigids and bendys, eventually making MRT a faster option. So IMO, 851 can stay at similar ratio of SDs and HC buses maybe 3-4 upgrades at most.
But at least with the DDs replacing bendy, some are seen on 851 weekends now..rather than zero. Even 980 starts to get back bendy..
From what i observed for 851,Weekday heavy loading patterns starts from 0730-0825/1735-2000 and after that the loadings is well managed by SDs with good frequencies..Weekends is a bit tough,Might need 6 full day DDs.Overall i feel 851 need 5 full day DDs and 4 split shift DDs.
Well bad news for you folks.
5888H - Tyre *poof* on BKE earlier in the afternoon.
5889E - left side rear got buang with 1204E in CCK int this morning. Bus was reversing out from parking lot i guess and it missed the turn and bang. left side lower deck last windscreen shattered, body scratched.
From what I have heard from some (un)reliable sources, SMRT Buses bought 16 units for the Production Batch, directly replacing TIB889K - TIB904A.
SMB5889E SMB5890A SMB5891Y SMB5892U SMB5893S SMB5894P SMB5895L SMB5896J SMB5897G SMB5898D SMB5899B SMB5900E SMB5901C SMB5902A SMB5903Y SMB5904U
Well, with SMRT already making the stand that Bendys for shorter routes and DDs for longer routes, it's logical for them to do that. The Bendys on the current longer routes have to be replaced by DDs. So it can't be a Bendy-to-bendy conversion for all the deregistering units. Hopefully the DAFs and Volgrens will also be replaced by DDs and not A22s.