Malay-Filipino relationship, any same situation?
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Originally posted by ahmadfaizboy:
I think you should understand one thing about the Malay community.The reason they require a non-Muslim to convert is so that you can meet their conservative standards,especially so when they are the indigenous peoples of the country.
Supposing the Malays had remained Hindus/Buddhists from the 15th century,we would have been gradually assimilated by non-Malays,especially Chinese because they're the majority.So,the Malays will lose their distinctiveness and their place in history and connection to the past.
But you know,I have an Indonesian cousin who converted to Catholic upon marrying a Catholic.But that's Indonesia.Indonesian Muslims are not so paranoid about losing their Muslim identity because their numbers are still big.
But Malaysian Malay Muslims are.Why?Because of their percentage numbers and also because of the reasons I mentioned in the 2nd paragraph.
For Thailand,it's a special case because the indigenous Thais and the Thai Chinese share a common religion.They don't mind the mix from the Chinese culture because their percentage is only 15%.
So for your case,if you really want to marry your Muslim bf,you should discuss with your bf these two things-identity and change,in the context of Southeast Asia.Arguing over religion will not help.It only makes your relationship worse.
Conservative? Not exactly true based on what I see in this part of the world.
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Conservatives is a culture, what you see is Singapore is a mix culture, like for me, virgin till marry is my way of conservatives, in this way, I preserve my innocent and culture. It is not easy to be conservatives, that is why you do not see the truth of it, many goes out of their own culture because conservatives demand discipline.
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Look people,let me clarify what I mean by 'conservative'.
When I say 'conservative' on my previous post,what I mean is that the Malay community still holds Islam as an integral part of their identity.That's why if you read the papers or watch the annual national day rally,he addresses them as "The Malay Muslim community bla bla bla..."
Of course,'conservatism' is itself a culture.But even then,many Malay couples who don't pray regularly or fast in Ramadan still have their marriages registered at ROMM instead of ROM.Why?Tradition.
I bet the government knows this.That's why in Singapore you have yet to see Balinese Hindus,Sumatran Christians or Catholic Filipinos(they're considered Malays if you follow Western anthropology standards) forming a considerable and influential section within the Malay community.Why?Because it makes interchangeability difficult.
A somewhat similar reason applies to why Chinese Singaporeans have to throw their dialects away and speak in Mandarin.
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Look ahmad, with all due respect to our malay friends and islam, many chinese buddhist, toaist, Indian hindus and christian are also very conservatives and hold their religion as a part of their life, discipline and pray well.
Religion is a believes of one faith, not a govt laws but rather a call for discipline within the religion laws, tho believe in it, one may choose or not choose to follow the strict regulations, chinese is chinese, malay is malay, religion does not imply buddhist must be chinese or that islam must be malay, it is only the race only.
However when the majority of them embraced that particular religion and that become the norm of being born that way. All religion teaches good, but most of them, as followers, cannot maintain the strict discipline and rules it command, if does, most of us are holy people already. For example no make up, no meat, etc etc
Take example of TS case, if the malay guy who is a muslim knows the rules of engagement in love cannot involve other religion especially a born christian, he should had backed off, why then, he accepted TS love. Therefore, it is contradicting, but I believe Love can overcome it, because we are all human, not God, not saint and certainly not like me, an Angel. Human got love emotion and that emotion can at time, take one to forgo one faith. And finally, as said, all religion are mend to be good, but if two lovers cannot get together due to the religion, then I think what is religion afterall, isn't it to love, share and care.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Look ahmad, with all due respect to our malay friends and islam, many chinese buddhist, toaist, Indian hindus and christian are also very conservatives and hold their religion as a part of their life, discipline and pray well.
Religion is a believes of one faith, not a govt laws but rather a call for discipline within the religion laws, tho believe in it, one may choose or not choose to follow the strict regulations, chinese is chinese, malay is malay, religion does not imply buddhist must be chinese or that islam must be malay, it is only the race only.
However when the majority of them embraced that particular religion and that become the norm of being born that way. All religion teaches good, but most of them, as followers, cannot maintain the strict discipline and rules it command, if does, most of us are holy people already. For example no make up, no meat, etc etc
Take example of TS case, if the malay guy who is a muslim knows the rules of engagement in love cannot involve other religion especially a born christian, he should had backed off, why then, he accepted TS love. Therefore, it is contradicting, but I believe Love can overcome it, because we are all human, not God, not saint and certainly not like me, an Angel. Human got love emotion and that emotion can at time, take one to forgo one faith. And finally, as said, all religion are mend to be good, but if two lovers cannot get together due to the religion, then I think what is religion afterall, isn't it to love, share and care.
the notion that love can overcome anything only happens on tv.
it is imperative that this thread be locked because it'll go beyond certain sensitive issues in which 1 of them is religion..
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Originally posted by Summer hill:
i thought there's something called nyonya? inter-racial marriage.
they are peranakans...descended from malaysia.... history said that the first came from a china official of the china imperial court who went to malaysia and married a local there. their descendents are babas or nonyas. You're suggesting that TS is from 1 of the china imperial court?
the last dynasty in china fell more than 50 years ago..... currently, it's normal being getting into a relationship with a normal being. TS' situation is totally different.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
Is he or his family very extreme about islam? If not, then just make the conversion. You can be a muslim but christian at heart. In many ways, the two share very common beliefs (which I'm sure you knw). If both of you are very staunch followers of your own religion, that can create a lot of tension. It's actually quite inflexible because at the end of the day....how much are religious principles worth? What matters is the both of you are willing to adapt to each other and live happily together.
Got a buddhist friend who married a muslim....no big deal really. Just convert to be a muslim and go through the motion. Whatever you really believe in is still up to you. Of course, it takes two hands to clap.
it's more than the beliefs and principles.. it's the existence of a higher being who will dictate their afterlife. -
Originally posted by Summer hill:
i thought there's something called nyonya? inter-racial marriage.
Nyonya diff. They came about because the chinese men came to southeast asia to settle down. Here last time, dun have so many chinese girls. Only the natives. Not all of them were Muslim. Those chinese men who married to Muslim ladies... I dunno what happened to them, cuz I didn't bother to read up. But those chinese + non-muslim native marriage then produced what we call today the Peranakans. These ppl still followed very much the chinese culture, eat pork and worship ancestors.
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Originally posted by Gracemanotoc:
Why does it have to this complicated when religion is the arguement? Can I just be me and him being him without converting?Can! as long as both the male and female can keep to not bringing the religion into the relationship for the rest of their life and this includes not allow own parents to comment nor interfere.
Easier said than done la, of course. Religion is like an education, an upbringing, a language... anything and everything that revolves a person's life. If the couple can really put this aside, totally don't think about it, then maybe can work out lor.
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Originally posted by ahmadfaizboy:
I think you should understand one thing about the Malay community.The reason they require a non-Muslim to convert is so that you can meet their conservative standards,especially so when they are the indigenous peoples of the country.
Supposing the Malays had remained Hindus/Buddhists from the 15th century,we would have been gradually assimilated by non-Malays,especially Chinese because they're the majority.So,the Malays will lose their distinctiveness and their place in history and connection to the past.
But you know,I have an Indonesian cousin who converted to Catholic upon marrying a Catholic.But that's Indonesia.Indonesian Muslims are not so paranoid about losing their Muslim identity because their numbers are still big.
But Malaysian Malay Muslims are.Why?Because of their percentage numbers and also because of the reasons I mentioned in the 2nd paragraph.
For Thailand,it's a special case because the indigenous Thais and the Thai Chinese share a common religion.They don't mind the mix from the Chinese culture because their percentage is only 15%.
So for your case,if you really want to marry your Muslim bf,you should discuss with your bf these two things-identity and change,in the context of Southeast Asia.Arguing over religion will not help.It only makes your relationship worse.
This is politics, man.
Making use of religion for political purposes?
Further more, your thesis is flawed. The Malay image is disappearing, slowly being replaced by the Arabic standard.
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Originally posted by dangerboi:
the notion that love can overcome anything only happens on tv.
it is imperative that this thread be locked because it'll go beyond certain sensitive issues in which 1 of them is religion..
because of your ignorance or because of religion, religion plays no role in most people Love, it is only a criteria, just like I like a tall man is a criteria, but not necessary love. One failure in love does not imply that others cannot do it or make it, I got many chinese galfrens marrie malay muslime guys, and they live happily without even the gal having to do anything in term of religion, all she does is respect that religion that her husband believes in, God said "Let there be Love", and if you ask me which god, I will said all god said that, because all believed that Love is peace. -
Originally posted by Gracemanotoc:
Hi there, I would really appreciate any advices from any couple who are maybe involved in Muslim-Christian relationship or best if Singaporean-Malay and Filipino couple?
I met my Singaporean-Malay bf through a common friend 9 months ago in a Malay birthday party. I never really intended to date or never really fantasized Muslim guys or even Malay guys in general though 90% of my friends are Malay girls. I am an open minded person but brought up in a society with hardcore Christian faith but respects and connected with my Malay friends really well.Anyways, since the first time we set eyes on each other it was like a magnet. I really thought it was just casual dating, after all I wasn’t really interested in a serious relationship back then. But he became so persistent, he invite me all the time for dates, dinners, movies, walks, bring me to his football games, some more we have similar Malay circle of friends who welcomed us to be a pair. Physically he is not the typical Malay looking guy. He’s 31, mixed-Arab (mom) and Singaporean-Malay (dad). So appearance-wise, he is one of those guys you can say WOW on the first glance and I’m also not a typical Filipino looking girl, 29, I can camouflage around Chinese women. Anyways, to cut the story short………. We got very close, and became bf and gf eventually and now turning 8 months.
At first, differences in food and religion never entered my brain until lately when we are getting really serious – serious meaning we say I LOVE YOU’s to each other and start talking about life forever, marriage, children and all that. He cannot eat pork obviously and I cannot bring him to church every Sunday although he said he wouldn’t mind to go try one day. I am just confused. It’s as if I couldn’t love him fully…. Imagine a scenario when we sit over a dinner, I do my sign of cross and say my “Our Father” as my grace and he say his grace his own way while acting like washing his face after praying. During Fridays, I have to leave him in my room for an hour because I’d pray my rosary and he would also be away from many times because he would pray in a silent corner.
Is dating with a Malay guy a good choice or I am making a mistake? It would hurt me to back out but if I had to, I would. I met his brother and sister but scared to meet his parents so I always insist to delay meeting his parents.We talked about religion and even argued about it because I made it a big deal. I know my family back home would really say something when they find out but I’m sure they would agree eventually as long as I will remain Christian. What about his Malay family? I’m sure his parents would be against it. I am very frank and straight when I told him, I will never give up my Christian belief in the event we’d really get to that situation. I am scared to lose him but scared to lose my identity as well.
He is a wonderful person, he showed me passion and going out with him is awesome we can talk about anything under the sun… I even love when he speaks Malay around his other fellows and we’re learning each others’ languages… but I am scared about our differences. Any advice?
Fear comes from uncertainty. The doom and gloom advises from many forumers here are also posted out of fear.
There are many inter-racial and/or inter-religious marriage out there.
There's a few common success factors for these kind of marriages to work.
Since you are an engineer, you should be able to rationalise and apply accordingly.
First,
The couple are usually intellectuals. Ability to think on their own, thus are less gullible to outside influences from naysayers.
They are able to secure their own resources. Thus no need to rely on any family-inlaws resources. Those who need family-In-laws support are susceptible to family pressures and manipulations, that's what will rip the couple apart.
Second,
These couples are not fearful of family or friends dis-owning them. They draw strength from each other instead of relying on outsiders approvals. They limit their social circle to only those like themselves, usually within intellectuals who tends to be more liberal about these kind of unions.
You seem like an intelligent girl, is your boyfriend as intelligent, well educated and well travelled as you ?
While love transcend all boundaries, for a long term relationship to work, you need more than love. You need compatibility.