your brother has no legal claim, but you have a bigger problem and that's your brother. even when you cut him out of the house, he will still leech on you....
Originally posted by yahoo.com:Hi.. need some advise.
about 20 years ago, my mum gained custody of my brother and me. At that time, our ages were 10(me) and 9(brother). Sold the matrimonial house and majority of the proceeds came to my mum as she had custody of us. Bought House A using the proceeds and stayed there till i was 21 and bro was 20. Moved to house B. House B was paid for from the sale proceeds of house A (not much) and remaining was serviced by me.
8 years later, due to the countless problems and police cases caused by my brother who is 28 now, i have decided to sell the house which is under my mum’s and my name. Brother is listed as an occupant. He doesnt work. doesnt contribute any thing to the family except torturing my mother emotionally and he has been taking drugs (lately not sure if he still does).
Problem is, Brother keeps insisting my mum has custody of him and she must look after him. Mum also says she must look after him until he gets married off as this is the “LAW”. She wants out though. And brother insists that the sale proceeds of this house must be shared with him as my mum could buy the House A only because of him agreeing to be in my mum’s custody. House C which is going to be bought by me and my mum, must have his name in it, he insists.
I would like to check if this is true. I mean this arse is 28 years old, always giving problems, never works, always takes money from mum, steals money from me, steals my belongings… how do i get away from him? my mum wanna get away as well but she is worried that should we buy a new house, HDB will force him to be an occupant as he is under my mum’s custody. 28 years old and still under her custody??
Can anyone give me a sound piece of advise please? i am going crazy…
Your brother needs psychological help.
Legally, your mother is only obligated to take care of both of you till legal age.. Not sure 18 or 21.
Your mom wants to take care of him past legal age.. is not because of law.. it's because of her conscience.
He is, no matter what he does, her flesh and blood.. it's very difficult for any mother to abandon her own child. Even a mother of a drug addict/murderer will continue to love and worry about her own children.
However, the current house...I think it's only fair the proceed splits 3 ways lah.. between your mom, you and brother. Deduct the 25k from his share.. and you take back the amount you've paid into the mortgage. (Assuming it's a positive sale lah). Then divide the remainder equally among the 3 of you.
Once you have done this.. he will not need to feel entitled to House C.
No, you do not need to include him in House C.He cannot force himself in either. Please tell your mother you are not as ignorant as she thinks lah.
The legal part is actually the most clear cut lah.
It's the unreasonable part of your brother that will be causing more problems later.
This is a messy family. But you all should sit down and revised, how come your family become like this.
He is your only brother how can you throw away him like this.
By legal means, you all cannot just throw him away like that. If the police find him sleeping on the streets, he will be brought to the nearest kin (which is your mother or you).
Should not he be staying in the half-way house?
Get help from SANA. Your family (including your father, mother, you and your brother) need to be fixed.
blood is still thicker than water
Originally posted by lce:blood is still thicker than water
Of cors.. provided got no cancer lah.
Cancer of the blood cause a family member to abuse his own parents/siblings lah.
Either you get rid of the cancer cell/s or you get killed by it lor.
Originally posted by jojobeach:Of cors.. provided got no cancer lah.
Cancer of the blood cause a family member to abuse his own parents/siblings lah.
Either you get rid of the cancer cell/s or you get killed by it lor.
give the man a bowl, he will be a beggar for the rest of his life
teach the man a skill, he will be able to tan jiak and fill his bowl
lavish the man with love, he will be able to feel the world with emotion
grant the man some hope, he can hope and becomes fat, so FAT HOPE
enrich the man his mind and he will be OUT OF HIS MIND
THIS IS IMH .....siao
There such thing as legally disowning... 家贼难防。。。must make police report 1st...
You are all three individual adults. You each have to manage your own affairs.
You can buy House C with any kind of arrangement you desire. By yourself, joint tenancy or tenancy in common with your mom, or with anybody else. You decide the method and the proportion of contribution to the purchase. If you want to.
No one should demand you do what you don't agree to.
If you want to buy a house with your mom, you would seem to be leaving your younger brother out. As you all are a three some. I suggest you by a house on your own. A private property you'll have no problem with requirements. You decide who lives with you.
HDB flat, you have the family nucleus requirement. So you have to have to buy with your mom. No choice, and stick to that. Do not include your brother. Even if he is a reasonable fella, it would spell trouble later in life. Keep it simple. You and your mom form the nucleus.
Forget about the "LAW". Unless your younger brother is a dependent, i.e a handicap, you and your mom don't owe him anything, legally. If anything its only conscience matter. It will be messy in years to come if you mix your assets all together. This is a guarantee.
Consider yourself as an individual and act from there. Do not be forced in to doing what your younger brother want. Worst come to worst, don't do anything remain as you are. You have the choice of a small trouble or a big sticky problem.
To TS:
For the caring part, legally it is the other way around. Depending on your mum's age, she is entitled to some form of financial support from her children.
http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_1614_2009-11-30.html
There have been cases of elderly parents suing their children for financial support, and this has received much air time and print space, if you bothered to watch the news and read the papers.
It sounds like your mum is emotionally burdened with your brother's current state of affairs, so much so that she is trying hard to turn his life around, rather than being worried about legal implications.
Your mum needs counselling, not legal advice.
PS: Custody only lasts to the age of 21.
http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/public/you_and_the_law/custody_and_maintenance.aspx
Go for counselling. They will give you more ideal solution in what you should do. Do it now, dont delay.
My simple advise, your brother is afterall your brother. No matter how he took drugs, steal money, he is still your brother. Your mother loves both of you. Mother love can conquere the world.
Go for counselling now.
have u ever had a gud talk with yr brother?
Settle things compartmentally.
Separate relationship issues, with your assets, finances etc.
Relationship issues go for counselling, behaviourial therapy, mediation etc.
Your property, bank account, your businesses, your assets, please keep it simple as possible. Sole proprietoryship.
Asset management and 'Divorce negotiation' regarding jointly held property, bank account and other assets are always messy and full of acrimony. Prevention is the word!
Yahoo,
1) Your question on custody it automatically expired when your brother hit 21yrs old.
http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/public/you_and_the_law/custody_and_maintenance.aspx
Period for custody or maintenance
Usually an order for custody or maintenance will automatically expire or become ineffective after your child reaches his 21st birthday or in the matter of the child's maintenance, when your child is financially independent. Sometimes the Judge can order maintenance for a specific period, even after your child reaches his 21st birthday, such as until the completion of his tertiary education.
However, if your child suffers from any physical or mental disability, the custody and/or the care and control/access or maintenance order may continue until he recovers from that disability, even after he turns 21.
2) He is already 28 - custody already expired long time ago , so under the law or HDB or any damn thing - there is no way he can include himself as a occupant of the new house - under the name of your mum and you. The only thing he can do is bullshit or you or your mum approve it.
3) Frankly you all don't have to give him a cent from the sales of the old house. In the eye of the law, he is not even entited to it, as the old house does not have his name. As for listing him as a occupant in the new house - Don't !!! if you let him list as an occupant - he can legally put on his IC the address . Well loanshark will based on IC - come after this address !!!
It is time to make a clean break !!!
Don't think he will let it go without a share of the proceed - thus this is your bargin chip !!!
He get a share but will not be a occupant in new house. It is that or totally nothing !!!
I would not give him the whole lump sum !!! this type of people have no honor !!! - give him in percentage in different stages - I would pay a lawyer to draft out a agreement and have him sign at the lawyer office !!!
25% - afer he agree to stay away and sign on agreement
25%- after he move out from the old house - don't ever let him stay in new house !!!
25% - 3 months after you and mum stay at old house without issue from him - he stay away.
25% -1/2 year after you and your mum stay at old house without issue and he stay away.
remember - if he break any of the term - he is no longer entited to the rest of the money !!!
Your brother is already 28yrs old - and a sinking ship. People can say empathise or compassion - but it is pointless to go down with a sinking ship. Ask those people who call for empathise or compassion to adopt your brother !!! - hello they talk only - will they want to go down with a sinking ship - i guess not !!!
Originally posted by yahoo.com:Aneslayer: made tons of police reports, the police can only advise us to settle internally as its a family prob plus my brother is listed as the occupant.
mancha: i so wish to break away as well. but to do that, i gotta sell the house now. else in future, the problem will still be there. And i definitely cant let my mum be alone. So considering a pte property first followed by a hdb as pte doesnt need a family nucleus like u mentioned.
Alloy13: Cant seem to access the website. u practise law?
Anyway thanks to all for your advises. I wish that i can settle this problem as soon as possible and live my own peaceful life.
No I don't practise law, but I know bits of stuff. Ambition was to be a lawyer, but now on the path to journalism instead. As for the website link, just copy and paste it in the address bar. I didn't make it a hyperlink, sorry about that.
I wish you the best in this matter! =)
Originally posted by storywolf:Yahoo,
1) Your question on custody it automatically expired when your brother hit 21yrs old.
http://www.lawsociety.org.sg/public/you_and_the_law/custody_and_maintenance.aspx
Period for custody or maintenance
Usually an order for custody or maintenance will automatically expire or become ineffective after your child reaches his 21st birthday or in the matter of the child's maintenance, when your child is financially independent. Sometimes the Judge can order maintenance for a specific period, even after your child reaches his 21st birthday, such as until the completion of his tertiary education.However, if your child suffers from any physical or mental disability, the custody and/or the care and control/access or maintenance order may continue until he recovers from that disability, even after he turns 21.
2) He is already 28 - custody already expired long time ago , so under the law or HDB or any damn thing - there is no way he can include himself as a occupant of the new house - under the name of your mum and you. The only thing he can do is bullshit or you or your mum approve it.3) Frankly you all don't have to give him a cent from the sales of the old house. In the eye of the law, he is not even entited to it, as the old house does not have his name. As for listing him as a occupant in the new house - Don't !!! if you let him list as an occupant - he can legally put on his IC the address . Well loanshark will based on IC - come after this address !!!
It is time to make a clean break !!!
Don't think he will let it go without a share of the proceed - thus this is your bargin chip !!!
He get a share but will not be a occupant in new house. It is that or totally nothing !!!I would not give him the whole lump sum !!! this type of people have no honor !!! - give him in percentage in different stages - I would pay a lawyer to draft out a agreement and have him sign at the lawyer office !!!
25% - afer he agree to stay away and sign on agreement
25%- after he move out from the old house - don't ever let him stay in new house !!!
25% - 3 months after you and mum stay at old house without issue from him - he stay away.
25% -1/2 year after you and your mum stay at old house without issue and he stay away.
remember - if he break any of the term - he is no longer entited to the rest of the money !!!Your brother is already 28yrs old - and a sinking ship. People can say empathise or compassion - but it is pointless to go down with a sinking ship. Ask those people who call for empathise or compassion to adopt your brother !!! - hello they talk only - will they want to go down with a sinking ship - i guess not !!!
I do not agree to withholding the proceeds from the younger brother, this is very underhanded and outright unscrupulous.
The father gave the house to the mother because he needs to ensure his 2 children are taken care of.
Had it not been for his 2 children.. I am very sure their father would had prefered to split the matrimonial asset instead of giving it to his ex-wife.
I believe it is also the father's intention to have the flat be shared equally among the 3 of them.
TS has used the money from sale of the matrimonial asset to purchase another house, under HIS name and mom name. Why is the brother's name not included as co-owner/tenant too ?This is already unfair to the brother.
TS used what was also his brother's share to further his economic status by investing the FULL amount into their current flat, without proper consideration for his brother's interest in the first place. In fairness, TS should return a fair portion of the proceed to his brother upon sale of their current home.
Right now, the brother is resentful because he knows, he is unfairly treated.
What I'd like to know is .. will TS be using his mother's portion to purchase a private property solely in HIS own name ???
Remember, there are just laws and there's unjust laws.
Yes, you may argue that the brother is the scum of the world.
But 2 wrongs does not make 1 right.
Just because he is a thief.. does not means you should steal from him too.
28 yo still need mum's old milk meh?? wha cau! me since 1yo already no mother and independent until now. Please now, go by the rule of RA movie lah, after 21yo, you get your key, parents no need to care for you, instead you should care for parents.
I do not blame your brother, nor you, but the marriage that should never happen, the man, your father should not be a man or a father or even get marry, he is what created your brother behavior, if both your parent are still lovely married, i bet your brother will be more well nutured and will be good to the society. So, it all voice down to the last generation mistake that bring about today problem. Take care of your brother, no choice.
上一代的错误�为了今天的痛苦
Originally posted by jojobeach:I do not agree to withholding the proceeds from the younger brother, this is very underhanded and outright unscrupulous.
The father gave the house to the mother because he needs to ensure his 2 children are taken care of.
Had it not been for his 2 children.. I am very sure their father would had prefered to split the matrimonial asset instead of giving it to his ex-wife.
I believe it is also the father's intention to have the flat be shared equally among the 3 of them.
TS has used the money from sale of the matrimonial asset to purchase another house, under HIS name and mom name. Why is the brother's name not included as co-owner/tenant too ?This is already unfair to the brother.
TS used what was also his brother's share to further his economic status by investing the FULL amount into their current flat, without proper consideration for his brother's interest in the first place. In fairness, TS should return a fair portion of the proceed to his brother upon sale of their current home.
Right now, the brother is resentful because he knows, he is unfairly treated.
What I'd like to know is .. will TS be using his mother's portion to purchase a private property solely in HIS own name ???
Remember, there are just laws and there's unjust laws.
Yes, you may argue that the brother is the scum of the world.
But 2 wrongs does not make 1 right.
Just because he is a thief.. does not means you should steal from him too.
If you believe it is also the father's intention to have the flat be shared equally among the 3 of them. Then you can better believe - that his father intension is not for the son to be the scum of the world.
Talk about fair - was it fair that the scum of the world live off the family for so long.
Ok let talk fair then - let work out 28 -21 = 7 years living of the family, how much is that in $ ?
Even if TS be using his mother's portion to purchase a private property solely in HIS own name or join name? Is there anything wrong, as TS have been working and taking care of the mother and will continue to do so !
Howllllll!!oooo, when the wolf cries..
Originally posted by angel7030:28 yo still need mum's old milk meh?? wha cau! me since 1yo already no mother and independent until now. Please now, go by the rule of RA movie lah, after 21yo, you get your key, parents no need to care for you, instead you should care for parents.
I do not blame your brother, nor you, but the marriage that should never happen, the man, your father should not be a man or a father or even get marry, he is what created your brother behavior, if both your parent are still lovely married, i bet your brother will be more well nutured and will be good to the society. So, it all voice down to the last generation mistake that bring about today problem. Take care of your brother, no choice.
上一代的错误�为了今天的痛苦
You cannot say 28yr old drinking mum's milk.
That is call mature late.
Just like you Angel, you mature very fast, 1 yr old.
Originally posted by storywolf:If you believe it is also the father's intention to have the flat be shared equally among the 3 of them. Then you can better believe - that his father intension is not for the son to be the scum of the world.
Talk about fair - was it fair that the scum of the world live off the family for so long.
Ok let talk fair then - let work out 28 -21 = 7 years living of the family, how much is that in $ ?
Even if TS be using his mother's portion to purchase a private property solely in HIS own name or join name? Is there anything wrong, as TS have been working and taking care of the mother and will continue to do so !
Let's say you own a house next time. And you let your parents live with you. Are you going to charge them RENT and collect utilities from them ?
If you let them stay without charging them anything first.. then stake full claim to all their assets later.. is that not in essence charging them for living with you albeit through "credits" accrued over the years ?
When you entitled yourself to their assets because you let them stay with you without paying anything up front... is that truly taking care of them for free ?????
You want to take care of your family, yet you feel they owe you stuff later.. is that truly done out of filial piety? It's nothing but a delayed business transaction. I give you this now.. you pay me back later. no ?
If TS is truly a filial son, and he is taking care of his family with his sweat income, he would give his mom back the money so she can go enjoy her life, whatever is left of it.
So please don't use taking care of his family as reason to stake claims on assets that belong to others.
If TS had intention of making his family PAY for the care he provides.. he shoulda made it clear from the very beginning.