wad de meaning of NA n tubro..?
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Originally posted by HENG@:let us compare 2 cars....
Ferrari Enzo : NA 6l V12
B.Engineering Edonis: Twin Turbo 3.8l V12
both are farking fast.
conclusion: no difference.
it all depends on the engine -
I believe what Leon is saying is that there is a performance difference for a car in entry and exit if it is turbo or NA. Turbo relies on a component which runs off the exhaust gases (more gas, more pump) to pump air into the engine. When you slow down for entry, there will be less exhaust gases. Less air is pumped in as the component is slowed down. Therefore there will be less combustion and therefore less power. NA cars will not suffer so much since air can still enter naturally.Originally posted by Leon_FC3S:I somehow agree with u with this statement.
NA cars are good in entry.
Turbo cars are good at exit.
For me, i would prefer NA cars than turbo cars.
However at exit, the driver will be stepping on the accelerator. Therefore there will be an increase in exhaust gases. So with more exhaust, the turbo will be faster and therefore pump more air into the engine. NA air intake depends on speed of the car. At exit, speed will be quite low so not much air intake. So NA cars suffer at this point. -
sorry but tt siii siii sound comes from the blowoff if u install it in ur cars engine.... its very small,only the size of ur palm,but tt costs a few hundredOriginally posted by t3chnoboy:In initial d... Cars with turbo when u change gear got the "siiii siii" sound... NA cars whem change gear no sound...
turbo and na not fast,it depends whether u got nitro
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nitro suxOriginally posted by dark_snowboy:sorry but tt siii siii sound comes from the blowoff if u install it in ur cars engine.... its very small,only the size of ur palm,but tt costs a few hundred
turbo and na not fast,it depends whether u got nitro -
here now, i can think of so many points to counter this. 1stly, if u're car is slowing down, braking for a corner, do u think it matters if your car is NA or turbo? so this is hogwash. On the exit, a turbo car may have turbo lag. so once again, is it as simple to classify it as "turbo cars bad on entry good on exit" ? no. and honestly, the speed at which the air is entering the engine is not as much a factor as the RPMs the engine is in. honestly, i can't see how u can make statements like "there is a performance difference for a car in entry and exit if it is turbo or NA" because there are so many factors to consider.Originally posted by Impreza WRX:I believe what Leon is saying is that there is a performance difference for a car in entry and exit if it is turbo or NA. Turbo relies on a component which runs off the exhaust gases (more gas, more pump) to pump air into the engine. When you slow down for entry, there will be less exhaust gases. Less air is pumped in as the component is slowed down. Therefore there will be less combustion and therefore less power. NA cars will not suffer so much since air can still enter naturally.
However at exit, the driver will be stepping on the accelerator. Therefore there will be an increase in exhaust gases. So with more exhaust, the turbo will be faster and therefore pump more air into the engine. NA air intake depends on speed of the car. At exit, speed will be quite low so not much air intake. So NA cars suffer at this point.
honestly, on entry to a corner, a car being good or bad has nothing to do with whether its NA or turbo. it has more to do with brakes, chassis balance etc. on exit, it also depends on chassis balance, as well as the engine's torque characteristics. The statement highlighted in red shows that while u do have some knowledge of how engines work, it's still inaccurate and that there r certain factors u haven't considered yet. -
Heng,
Yes, you're right to say that it doesn't matter which car it is when you take the corner. What matters is the effect you get from both cars. A car with turbo does suffer from turbo lag which is why there was the anti-lag system which is used by one of the EVO in the game. It's called 'Bang Bang' as well, due to the sound it makes. A turbocharger works better if there are more exhaust gases, you get more gas when you're going faster. At lower speeds, a turbocharger can be considered as an extra load on the engine. There is a minimum rotary speed to be achieved before the turbo starts up. So if you slow too much, the turbo can shut off. The Bang Bang basically literally ignites fuel air at the turbo. This explosion causes the turbo to immediately start up. Not really good for the engine and turbo. At the point where the turbo starts up, this helps in air intake. The air intake is more as compared to a NA car with both at the same speed.
I never said that air intake equates to rpm. I said the speed of the car would affect the air intake for NA. More speed, more air. You can speed to 200km/h and then put to neutral, your rpm would drop but your speed wouldn't, you would start to slow down though.
A previous post said that the turbo is 'geh liao'. True, but the thing is that it has some benefits along with some negative ones. If the turbo is actually nothing useful at all, why is it installed? If it does absolutely nothing, it will just be an added weight on the car.
The performance difference is minor but it still exists. I agree that overall performance depends on what you have said but this thread is focusing on NA and turbo. Both have good points as well as bad points, it's where along the race that these points surface. -
the differences are minimal, and i actually fail to comprehend how u all can compare cars on entry? cornering speed is decided by the driver, who decides it on how well the car can corner, and according to varying driving styles. a car being NA or turbo has nothing to do with entry speed at all. It's just this whole rubbishy Initial D anime n game giving ppl a misconception of a car being good or bad on entry. hell i watch the anime too but most of it is hogwash. if ppl use that anime to learn about cars, then..... hell they're gonna learn all the wrong things. the most u maybe can say is that there is a slight difference on EXIT for a NA n a turbo car, and even I can't quantify which is better. Turbo lag, yes is undesirable. so maybe the NA car is better on exit? but if u toe n heeled and kept the engine RPMs high, and u get wheelspin on exit, thats undesirable too. so maybe the turbo is better because of the lag eliminates wheelspin, and due to the lower torque band, it then picks up faster when the tyres have higher adhesion? see u can't quantify good or bad just by whether a car is NA or turbo. so EVEN if this thread focuses on NA n turbo, there is no way u can draw a clean line n say which is good which is not so good.Originally posted by Impreza WRX:Heng,
Yes, you're right to say that it doesn't matter which car it is when you take the corner. What matters is the effect you get from both cars. A car with turbo does suffer from turbo lag which is why there was the anti-lag system which is used by one of the EVO in the game. It's called 'Bang Bang' as well, due to the sound it makes. A turbocharger works better if there are more exhaust gases, you get more gas when you're going faster. At lower speeds, a turbocharger can be considered as an extra load on the engine. There is a minimum rotary speed to be achieved before the turbo starts up. So if you slow too much, the turbo can shut off. The Bang Bang basically literally ignites fuel air at the turbo. This explosion causes the turbo to immediately start up. Not really good for the engine and turbo. At the point where the turbo starts up, this helps in air intake. The air intake is more as compared to a NA car with both at the same speed.
I never said that air intake equates to rpm. I said the speed of the car would affect the air intake for NA. More speed, more air. You can speed to 200km/h and then put to neutral, your rpm would drop but your speed wouldn't, you would start to slow down though.
A previous post said that the turbo is 'geh liao'. True, but the thing is that it has some benefits along with some negative ones. If the turbo is actually nothing useful at all, why is it installed? If it does absolutely nothing, it will just be an added weight on the car.
The performance difference is minor but it still exists. I agree that overall performance depends on what you have said but this thread is focusing on NA and turbo. Both have good points as well as bad points, it's where along the race that these points surface.
of course if u were just talking about that rather unrealistic game, then ok loh... but remember that initial D is so full of hogwash. -
Why bring in the other things? When we do an experiment to compare 2 things, we keep other things constant, car type/build, driver, track, corner and so on. If you insist on factoring all the other things, obviously everything would change. Different cars with different parts with different drivers on different tracks will have different performances. What I'm trying to get at is that if 2 cars with every other condition the same (with no negative ones like wheelspin, or crashing) except for it being NA or turbo, there will be some performance difference at different points. It will be very minor but it matters to those guys who race professionally. I can be a few seconds late for work but those few seconds are different for racers.
Entry speed doesn't depend on NA or turbo but largely on the corner first. Whatever your style or car type, the corner would dictate your range of speed at entry. I do not believe you can take a car, however well tuned, in at 200 km/h for a U turn as compared to maybe a 50 degree turn. Probably there is some nut out there who can do it but this would be an exception.
Imagine world rally champion in a beat up old car versus some guy who just got his license in a ferrari for a drag, who would win? There are too many variables for an accurate comparison. New guy could win because he got better car but champ could win because he got skill (hopefully).
And yes, I cannot quantify which is better NA or turbo either. There are good and bad things for both. It's up to preferences. -
unfortunately there is NO way u can keep it constant, not even for discussion's sake, for a comparism, for such a case like this, simply because this IS REALITY, not a cartoon. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.Originally posted by Impreza WRX:Why bring in the other things? When we do an experiment to compare 2 things, we keep other things constant, car type/build, driver, track, corner and so on. If you insist on factoring all the other things, obviously everything would change. Different cars with different parts with different drivers on different tracks will have different performances. What I'm trying to get at is that if 2 cars with every other condition the same (with no negative ones like wheelspin, or crashing) except for it being NA or turbo, there will be some performance difference at different points. It will be very minor but it matters to those guys who race professionally. I can be a few seconds late for work but those few seconds are different for racers.
Entry speed doesn't depend on NA or turbo but largely on the corner first. Whatever your style or car type, the corner would dictate your range of speed at entry. I do not believe you can take a car, however well tuned, in at 200 km/h for a U turn as compared to maybe a 50 degree turn. Probably there is some nut out there who can do it but this would be an exception.
Imagine world rally champion in a beat up old car versus some guy who just got his license in a ferrari for a drag, who would win? There are too many variables for an accurate comparison. New guy could win because he got better car but champ could win because he got skill (hopefully).
And yes, I cannot quantify which is better NA or turbo either. There are good and bad things for both. It's up to preferences.
u say assume everything is the same. ok. same car, same track, same driver, same tyres same everything even. now the problem is, pls explain how, in 2 cars with everything the same, can the bhp be the same then? and because the addition of a turbo requires an intercooler, the whole installation adds weight. so then u have to lighten the car. or u can assume the NA car has been tuned up to get the same bhp. now its so highly tuned, that it once again becomes impossible to compare them again, since diff things like diff max rpms etc manifest themselves. how the heck then, are u going to get any even remotely visible comparism? do u see why i say its impossible even for a theoratical point of view comparism?
the point im making is, yes, on EXIT only, there would be some small difference. but thats all. u can't even say if the difference is for better or worse. because, we do live in reality, not in a cartoon. btw previously u were saying u feel leon is saying there is an difference on both entry and exit. the problem is, there is really no difference on entry. so do u now mean to say u believe there is only a difference on EXIT and that u cannot tell the difference either?
btw pls dun tell use the it matters for professional racers line on me. I've raced b4 and yes I've experienced the way different technical specfications can affect my race, but that was more due to the transmission, which I would feel makes a larger difference to a racing car's advantage on EXIT, than the engine. Also, u do notice that for most racing categories, the rules are fixed, and u either have Turbo or you don't. so it would really matter less to professional racers than u think. My opinion would be that chassis setup and tuning the engine's powerband to suit the circuit is ultimately more important, since it's not up to the racer or his team to decide if he wants a turbo or not. -
as for Leon, unless he was referring to ID only, his agreeing with the statement of
NA cars are good in entry.
Turbo cars are good at exit.
is rather funny. -
Well if you put it that way, that it's not possible to maintain constant conditions for theoretical comparison, I'm going to have to agree with you that there's no comparison.
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ok. personally though, what do u prefer? NA or Turbo? although from your nick, im guessing turboOriginally posted by Impreza WRX:Well if you put it that way, that it's not possible to maintain constant conditions for theoretical comparison, I'm going to have to agree with you that there's no comparison. -
LoL~ MISFIRING! NA-ised Turbo!!
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wad has misfiring actually got to do with NA-ised turbo?! I swear that anime is putting rubbish into ppl's heads...Originally posted by HaYasHiBaRa:LoL~ MISFIRING! NA-ised Turbo!! -
Well you're not far off. Ideally (which is impossible), I would prefer both a super and turbo and that I would have control over the 2 components. Meaning controlling when they activate and when to shut them off. Unless they start building cars like transformers, I guess this one is out.Originally posted by HENG@:ok. personally though, what do u prefer? NA or Turbo? although from your nick, im guessing turbo
But practically, I would prefer turbo over NA. I prefer high speeds on straight roads than going through sharp corners. -
wah piang arx......talk till so cheem ....dunno wad u all sae...sianz....nw at china find place to play arcade....
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there ARE cars with both a supercharger n a turbo. rare, but they do exist. of course they r really exotic cars. hmmm TC cars do go thru sharp corners fast too u know. if well set up, they can catapult from a corner really fast due to the lower max torque RPMOriginally posted by Impreza WRX:Well you're not far off. Ideally (which is impossible), I would prefer both a super and turbo and that I would have control over the 2 components. Meaning controlling when they activate and when to shut them off. Unless they start building cars like transformers, I guess this one is out.
But practically, I would prefer turbo over NA. I prefer high speeds on straight roads than going through sharp corners. -
i thought NA had more control and turbo faster but less control....... o well
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I know there are cars with both but I want to be able to control when they activate. I believe that is currently impossible. Anyway I feel having both chargers add on too much weight for its benefits. Personally I like speeding down on a straightaway rather than going through corners.Originally posted by HENG@:there ARE cars with both a supercharger n a turbo. rare, but they do exist. of course they r really exotic cars. hmmm TC cars do go thru sharp corners fast too u know. if well set up, they can catapult from a corner really fast due to the lower max torque RPM -
Wow, machiam like reading compo liddat...
My 2-cents worth: If turbo was as useless as some people say, why would car makers even bother to put it into their sport models (although some car makers make it a speciality to make excellent NA racing cars, like Honda's NSX and S2000)
If u ask me, my dream car to own would be a Skyline GTR R34, with its twin turbo and its RB26DETT engine. However, i know owning one of these is bloody impractical, because maintaining a turbo-ed car is a pain in the ass if not done properly. Here in Singapore, if i want a sports car, i'll go with something NA, which is more practical, like a Civic Type R EK9 or an Integra DC5 -
eh...relak le...now not the time for debating la...got cars already very good liao...still want wat turbo or na thing...as long as u like the car...lidat settle lo...duhz...
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eh...relak le...now not the time for debating la...got cars already very good liao...still want wat turbo or na thing...as long as u like the car...lidat settle lo...duhz...
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errr...can give example of a NA car & a turbo car???Originally posted by Leon_FC3S:I somehow agree with u with this statement.
NA cars are good in entry.
Turbo cars are good at exit.
For me, i would prefer NA cars than turbo cars. -
NA cars: Trueno AE86, Altezza, RX-8, Roadsters, EK9 & other NA cars.Originally posted by chihuahua:errr...can give example of a NA car & a turbo car???
Turbo cars: Skylines, Lan Evos, RX-7s, Imprezas & other turbo cars. -
been wondering also man
in arcade is there actually a diffreence?
maybe my game playing senstivity is crap lol i cant tell the difference